Wake up, Buy Here, Pay Here people. It's a beautiful day. Go grab yourself another cup of joe and say hello to Jim and Michelle Rhodes on the Buy Here, Pay Here morning show. Take it away, you two. Hey, everybody. Good morning. Happy Monday. glad you're here yeah and uh all of you are here to witness michelle's new haircut you got a new haircut yeah after a visit to her brother in idaho and uh Got a nice haircut and enjoying. It's fun. It's just fun. It's fun for all of us. It's fun for all of us because I know that, you know, y'all are just like, oh, look. No. No, I had a really great weekend with my, with my older brother and my younger brother and I drove up to Twin Falls to visit my older brother. And I just, I'm going to put it out there. My, and so, you know, if anyone is having any kind of, this experience of this and their families, um, please, you know, I'd love to share my, our experience as far. My older brother has ALS and, um, so, oh man, I'm going to get emotional. Um, and it's, you know, so he's, it's just been an interesting thing. That's one of the reasons why we moved back to Utah. And, um, it's been an interesting thing to watch, uh, as he's got such a wonderful, positive attitude about it, but just to watch, um, Diminish. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's, he's in his chair most of the time can barely, barely walk is like really big fall hazard and, and all that kind of stuff. He was a long time insurance agent. They allowed him to retire early so he could obviously focus on his health and. and do some a little bit of like his bucket list it's just a really great example of you know we have this bucket list of stuff that we want to do and you know it's like when we you know when we retire when we retire when we retire and by the time you retire a lot of times you're so dang tired and um and all of that and so it's like you know fill your bucket list do it now because it's it's good stuff well no I should do it now no honey we're doing a podcast stay so um so yeah if if there's anybody out there that that has family then they just want someone to say hey I feel you um yeah I feel you yeah so Lots of announcements. We'll go through it quickly. I know that we do this all the time. Tuesday, tomorrow, Group 4 is meeting for V8. That is mid-size. Dealer Roundup is Thursday. If you haven't got your ticket, there is still one. If you get your ticket and you cannot attend, you get free access to all the recordings as well. The Dealer Roundup, we have NCM moderator Brent Carmichael will be moderating with Jim for the entire thing. Car Dogs, Outsourcing BDC, and Private Money are the topics. Car dogs being experienced car people. So not everybody's familiar with that expression. Yeah. Well, we'll just, yeah. Okay. Neo user summit coming up a week from tomorrow. We will be there in Vegas. Please come say hello. And then the buyer payer United conference is Wednesday through Friday of next week. V-I-A-D-A is also, the convention is Friday through Saturday of next week as well. 26th and 27th. Yeah, we were talking to Jeff Martin, saying if he was going to be in Vegas. And he's like, no, I'll be at V-I-A-D-A. So, you know, those of you who are out there, tell them we said hi. And then last thing is our V8 Group 3, which are newcomers, people that have less than $100,000. That is on Tuesday, the 30th. We hold that off till the end of the month because it's more coaching or it's kind of. Yeah. And we still have seats in that group. So those groups that have openings, we're pushing those to the second half of the month to give us time to add some people. And if you're interested in that V8 group or like you're from that 100 to 500 account, you could still get in that meeting. But I would really need to hear from you today if you want to get in the group meeting for tomorrow. So that's it. What else have we got? Nothing, nothing, nothing. Time for a topic. Pursuing deficiencies. So we first have to define what is a deficiency. So shall I? All right. So deficient balances are the balances that remain. They're generally in most software going to be considered an inactive account balance. So the customer's account is active up until the point that it's charged off and written off to bad debt. And obviously in most softwares at the time of the charge off, if there's a repo that's been recovered, that repo value gets assigned. So in a real simple example, if the customer's account balance at... The time they quit paying was about $10,000. And now the account gets charged off and there's a repo recovered of about $3,000. You apply that $3,000 credit, if you will. And there's a $7,000 deficient balance. So the question becomes, should we pursue? Should we not pursue? I've been asked this question, no telling how many times across my career. Well, it came up in a meeting with one of our clients. And so we were like, okay, that's a great thing to talk about. That's one of the ways that we get topics answered. is from different meetings. And we can totally bring kind of the white hat element to this because there is an ethical question. I feel like when this comes up, people really kind of make this decision more based on ethics than an operational matter. Like just do they feel ethically like it's okay to pursue those balances? And so, you know, Michelle and I have had a chance to talk, excuse me, talk it through. And she's kind of able to be the voice that's Outside the thing. I drank some water. It's giving me a hiccup. It didn't work the way you anticipated. And, you know, Jim mentioned in the description that it may surprise you where we stand on that. Because, you know, we talk White Hat Way, customer relations, all of that. And, you know... jim has has been a um on the pro side as long as you understand all of the pros and cons um and all of the considerations right there are some considerations here that and that's why we thought we just ought to take it on just for the sake of because we're working with a handful of people that are brand new to the business right now as well and so just thinking about how to explain it to all of them It's kind of the same thing we would share with everyone. Look, it's a decision at the end of the day. You're going to find this a decision for you to make for the sake of your business. And among the first things to really know in making that decision is, are you operating in a state that permits garnishment? Because that would be amongst the early considerations. I think if I were in a state that permitted garnishment, then it would give me the opportunity to do that in a way that maybe you couldn't in other states. Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about this. It doesn't have to have garnishment or not have garnishment for you to file like a judgment or something like that. It's just that there's not much teeth in the judgment. If you get that judgment, then there's not too many places you can go with it. And so you're spending, let's say in your state, it's around $200 to go file the court action because really this is what we're talking about. To pursue the deficient balance, obviously you could continue to have your collections team work it without going to the courthouse and you could do that. Most don't have much success there. Then you could go the courthouse route. You could go down and file your judgment, get the judgment. That's only going to matter if someone cares about what their credit report looks like. Yeah. And what dealers will tell you who have done this, they'll file the judgment. And then sometimes, you know, once every once in a while, they'll have a customer come forward and say, hey, I can't. I'm getting in a position to buy a house and unfortunately this thing is on my credit I need to get settled or you know get it'll get settled in full whatever and so dealers will collect some money just by filing the judgment the question becomes how many of those are you going to get if it's going to cost you 200 to file for every single one of them you don't have garnishment then is it really worth it so now we're back to just a matter of pure enforcement Like, do you want in your marketplace, if you're in a smaller market, you know, we used to call them John Deere towns. You know, if you're in these kind of smaller farming communities or more rural communities and you're kind of in a in that kind of situation, then. How does it play in your county if people know that this dealership does have a practice of pursuing the deficient balance? Does that have any impact on collections? Today, we're not necessarily bringing answers. I don't know anybody who's got any real data here to back up the ideas. Everyone has an opinion, though. It's our opinion. because we don't have data to back it up. You know, it's things that Jim has done in the past and things that we've watched while we've worked with so many dealers. And so that opinion might be, um, have a little bit more scope to it. Um, because we have, we, we talked to so many dealers and, and all of that. And, and, you know, as, as we were talking about this and we were, he's like, okay, so we're writing down pros, cons, considerations and everything. And, And, you know, the part where people might be surprised is, you know, White Hat Way, that we recognize that sometimes people might think that it's like, that's the feel good, that's the nice, you know, we want to be able to support and support. And it is, but it doesn't mean that you don't enforce what contracts that you have. Yeah, I think that's important. That's why I want to kind of bring in the white hat element because, you know, people have asked me on certain matters, I mean, is that really a white hat approach? And so let me just kind of address that in a more general way. It's like Look, there's nothing about white hat that says that the dealer should take all the responsibility and the customer have none. That's not what white hat weighs about. Yeah. That's not how good fences work. You know, if you're talking about rural farm country and the way, you know, the cowboy code of conduct, it's like, That's not, you know, letting the customer off scot-free is not, that's not why Atway. So this is, it's not about, you know, being forceful either. It's just about reaching an understanding. And so I'm thinking ahead to, and it helps maybe when you say everybody's got an opinion, that's absolutely true. In my case, I actually come from a background. I had a dealership. I personally went to the courthouse with some of our file limits. So here's how it worked. You walk into the courthouse, you take your documents. It's typically the contract and whatever else is relevant. And you file. give them those documents and you pay your 150 to $200 filing fee. And then they give you a court date and your court date. Then they go, sheriff goes serve, you know, the notice to the, the, the defendant. And, um, and then about if you had 10 of them, which usually for me, it was more like four or five of them. I might be taking the courthouse any one time, but if you had 10 of them, um, Maybe three of them show up and typically the judge sends you down the hall to mediation. I'm just telling you how my own process worked in my state. And so now you go down the hall and you just make the customer understand, look, I just want you to follow through on it. I don't. I don't need a big payment. And, you know, typically the mediator will confirm if we go back in there to the judge because we can't reach an understanding and we let the judge set a payment, I promise you it'll probably end up higher than what the payment was on the call or on the contract. That typically was the actual outcome. So because they would charge like... In my state, that would take like 30% typically of take-home wages. So you're talking about big chunks. That's like a car payment. Yeah. And so it could be a big number and sometimes more. And you could also garnish directly from a bank account. If there were a bank account, you could actually pull funds directly from the accountant. So that's just the way it works. It's like you've got an unresolved legal matter. Somebody owes you money, and that's kind of what the court process is all about. So now the question becomes, dealers are hearing this thinking, I didn't know I could do that. You know, one of the things that will happen when this broadcast goes out on some of the social media channels, groups, there will be people chiming in. Hey, you could sell your deficient balances to us. Yes. I don't know what they're going to promise you. I mean, that's an option. Yeah, you can. Yeah. I mean, it's usually, you know, pennies on the dollar. And so you might get a couple hundred dollars or something and then they buy it and we'll pursue it. Yeah. You know, so... Yeah, they'll, they'll pay you some, typically some amount of money, but she's right. It's usually pennies is what you're going to get on those contracts. And then, you know, for me, if I were buying deficient paper, it would have a lot to do back to whether it's a garnishment state. I mean, could I, would I, would my judgments have any teeth in them if I did go actually file for judgment, you know, and, and pursue this. So, so again, I think you start to understand that this is why it's really kind of a PR slash enforcement slash, you know, local reputation matter more than it is a financial matter. Yeah. Well, I mean, there is some recouping of losses, some. But, you know, that's one of the reasons why we have such high interest rates is because there are losses. There's a lot of losses that typically happen within this industry. But, you know, when Jim, because we were talking about the pros and that one of the pros is that we listed was, you know, it spreads word in your market that your dealership has a reputation of enforcement. Right. Now is some people would be like, that's a bad thing. Well, it depends on how you're handling enforcement. And, and, um, when, when you have a reputation, it's like, we will work with people. Um, we w we will work with you. I mean, cause you've, you know, one of the considerations was, is have you, have you given, uh, you know, file the paperwork, right. To resolve all of that kind of stuff. You know, you will, we're working with them. Don't tell me Brandis is like, don't make me take your car. Yeah. I don't want your car. I just, but don't make me take it. And so, you know, having that, it's like they're honest that the dealership is like honest, transparent, will help you. But if you don't, they will enforce it. And part of that is enforcement doesn't mean you have to be an asshole. I did. Well, I'm sorry. Did everyone wake up? You don't have to be Mr. Meanie pants, grouchy man, a jerk about it. It's just like, this is a contract. You signed a contract. This is what having a contract, this is what happens when you don't fulfill a contract. Yeah. And I think the other piece of consideration is really just the, the collections element. So again, again, you can strip away whatever part of this doesn't apply in your case, but imagine the conversation that I could have as a dealer in a state that did allow garnishment. So now, you've got a customer who's struggling. They're falling behind. They're feeling a little pressure and frustrated like so many of our customers do. And if they start to behave like they just want to give it up and walk away, then it's natural for us to be able to say, oh, let's don't do that. I mean, you don't want it up there. You could end up You know, because we do enforce our contracts here. Now you could end up in a place where you're paying for a car and you don't even have one. You know, it's like that's not where we want to end up. So it's like I'm able to use it as a pre-enforcement measure as part of my collections language. And I'm not being a jerk about it. I'm saying, no, let's avoid that. We don't want to end up in that situation. So, you know, so it's like a method for us to just having that teeth in the contract, I think, is really important. And I have said to others, there are some states out there that do not allow Texas being one of them. And and I know that, you know, I personally would love to see all states have that available. Now, does that mean every dealer will pursue it? No, I just think. It's problematic. And we see, I'd be interested to see the math. I don't know if we have any really good data on it, but my own direct experience in working with dealers in Texas is that they have a higher rate of voluntary repos. So, you know, it's like, well, okay, but let's go back. We've talked about this piece before. And if we haven't done this exact topic, Michelle, we probably want to talk about what I call the power of the paper. So what that means is if you go back to the time of signing the contract, We enter into a contract with a customer and we have this contract. And before we go to sign it, if I'm able to help the customer understand, now, look, before you sign this contract, let's understand what this represents. You know, when you put your signature on this piece of paper, what this means is you're prepared to make these payments irrespective of what's going on with the car. So it's like there's the car, which is collateral on this note. but your signature on this note needs to mean something. I didn't say that part, but I'm just, that was the approach that we would bring to the closing and putting power. What's wrong with you saying that? Not a thing. It's like your signature on this means something. You can imagine a state where there is no, there is no garnishment. Yeah. You could still follow a judgment, but it's like the customer can walk away from that with little penalty and And at least in the state where I operated, and I'm purposely not saying the name because it doesn't matter. You apply this to your own state. It's like, find out if your state permits garnishment. But for us, it helped to be able to say, look, here's something to understand. We do enforce our contracts around here. So that was the language I always use, not just we do enforce our contracts. So when you sign this contract and you don't follow through on the terms of the contract, And the example that I would give, because you can obviously go to mechanical problems and say, well, if a car is not running, you're still responsible for making the payment. Well, no customer wants to do that. We know that. So an example that I would use is, you know, if you had, for example, liability only insurance, because there was a time I did cars that were affordable enough and my risk was low enough that we would allow them to do liability only. And so you could just say to the customer, look, let's talk through this. If something happened to the car, tornado, you know, and now the car is gone or stolen from you. The car is gone. You still owe the payments on the contract. I mean, this is the car is just collateral. Yeah. So you're trying to separate. And that's what I mean by putting power in the paper. It's like it's like our customers in our space is part of the education that is required. Like our customers often don't understand that. And this is why one of the things that popped into my head as we're talking through this is that. Also, by filing the judgment That will land on the credit report because there are some, you know, dealers don't necessarily report to credit, but when you go to the courthouse and you file this and you get that judgment, now it becomes a matter of public record and now it would end up on the credit report. So, you know, there are a lot of dealers out there who talk about, you know, and you and I talked about it. We came up on a podcast a few weeks ago where... We don't always know when a customer had a past repo, even in our market, because not every dealer reports to credit. So they could have had another repo, you know, three months ago with somebody down the street. And I wouldn't know it if that dealer is not reporting to credit. So this is one more way that. You know, it just shows that, hey, here's a customer who walked away from a contract. That's really what it boils down to is they're not following through on the thing. And this is part of what is really foundational in our business. And this is why I think it's kind of helpful in my mind. This is why. And I don't feel strongly about it. I just kind of try to advise dealers. That's what we're doing this morning. Advise you both sides, pros and cons. Let you consider both. where that leaves you we do have dealers collecting massive amounts of money from their their deficient balances by hiring an attorney and often they're working on a contingency and they go they go after them and so they can turn into some real money but it's like I don't feel strongly. I just think you need to understand the ramifications. Really, it boils down to me is I don't see any problem with enforcing the contract and asking the customer to follow through on because it's like I always would say to people, especially hiring managers, look, the customer's signature on a piece of paper either means something or it doesn't. I'll say it again. Their signature on a piece of paper either means something or it doesn't. And so can I interject that, you know, when we were talking about pros, it's like it spreads the word in your market. You get a reputation for enforcement there. That is a positive thing. When I think about it, it's a positive thing all around. Because those that have no intention of fulfilling the contract will be dissuaded from... from going to you. And, and, but you know, it's like people that have, it will weed out those that are more, I would think it would weed out more of the bad characters or, you know, because we can imagine the scenario where somebody, somebody walked away from a contract and let's say they got garnished or they got a judgment, you know, so now you know you got some co-worker who's talking about going down to buy a car at bob's auto well be careful I bought a car there and you know it quit running and I turned it in and they end up suing me and you know whatever I got a judgment or just be careful it's like that so you might so maybe that customer chooses it could be a negative for that yeah maybe we didn't want to do business with that yeah that's true we didn't intend to follow through on the agreement then you know then that's that's kind of where we end up you also wrote down on some of the cons that you need to be aware of. And Jeff, you know, as we were writing this stuff down, he says, attorney friends of ours will be saying, ah, be careful because there you open yourself up to counter suits. Um, if, if customers choose to go on the defense, um, yeah, on offense, sorry. Um, well, and it's kind of a defensive measure. It's like, you know, um, so be prepared that that is something that could happen. Um, And so when you did that and you went to court and all of that, how often did that happen? I mean, like percentage-wise. It would never happen to me. I've heard of it happening in other cases. I think this is more likely to happen to the bigger dealerships. But look, this is not legal advice. We're not attorneys. We're just saying... I personally never was concerned about that as a dealer because my T's were well crossed. And that was a consideration that you said is just if you're going to pursue deficiencies, there are a few things that you need to need. We strongly advise that you keep in consideration. One is that all of your T's are crossed and all of your I's are dotted. So that just means all the documents, file all your documents. You're supposed to send your notice of sale. You have a certain process you're supposed to follow to liquidate these repos. Make sure you have good method for valuation and that you're being fair. They call it fair market value for a reason. Make sure that you've done a fair process to give the customer ample value for their repo. And when you're not sure, round it up. And then, you know, give them give the customer credit for the value of the repo. And now, you know, you just I mean, you just don't have much that they can come back on. You follow the process. So, you know, can can attorneys make it get expensive for you? Yeah, they can. But it's like. I think in business, if you decide you want to pursue and you want to enforce contracts, I think certainly you should be prepared for the idea that there could come a countersuit. And then but I just think if we if we cross our T's, then, you know, we shouldn't be afraid to take action whenever, you know, we know that we've done our part and we just got a customer. And let me just also give people the understanding. And I think. people will know in their markets whether their local jurisdiction, their local magistrate or, you know, county judge, whatever the process would be, they'll know whether those courthouses are creditor friendly or debtor friendly. And I could just say in the market that I was in, it was pretty creditor friendly. It was pretty cut and dried situation. You walk in there and I wasn't the only one in there as a creditor who would have been pursuing deficiencies. There were other, you know, small loan companies and whatever else that were in line ahead of me. And it was just a really cut and dry deal. It was like, you know, there were a few times that the customer would try to say something about the mechanical performance of the car or whatever. And the judge would just, you know, do you have your, do you have your documents? The car was as is, you know, whatever. And you show your documents and it's, it's as is like, you know, there's nothing more to talk about on that subject. It's as is like, that's not a hard thing to understand. So, you know, you've got a warranty or you got whatever. It's like, did you fulfill the obligation of your warranty? But it's like, And in all those situations, when I talk about this, if it was a mechanical matter, we were prepared to support the customer through mechanical matters always. And if I didn't repair the car, make them a side note, I was prepared to trade them into another car. Like we were always prepared to solve mechanical problems. It's just part of the nature of being in that business. So just because I was as is didn't mean I didn't have solutions and ways to help the customer. So I think in this case, we're just looking at, you know, the judge would simply look at the thing and it would just be, you know, judgment for the plaintiff, you know, kind of like the thing you see on TV judgment for the plaintiff. And now, and now I would take my judgment mark back over to the court clerk's office. And now you could, if you had their information about employment, you just file the stuff and you might spend another hundred bucks or something to file for your garnishment. And then they just start taking it out of the customer's wages. It's like, it was pretty cut and dry deal. So it's like, don't we just have to we have to try to put power in that paper and then we decide whether to enforce it or not but it just you know if it's just words and there's no teeth behind the words then obviously the customers you know smart enough to know that we you know we don't have a leg to stand on or that we're not really going to do anything about it and then now we end up with a contract it's pretty difficult to enforce so it's just this is part of where I think is it's just education it's about having the customer understand And so for me, I would be wrapping education into collections and helping the customer understand, look, this is, this is what happens. This is how we enforce contracts. I have a question for you. If you, can you pick and choose which ones you want to do that with? I'm going to say yes, but again, this is as a non-attorney speaking that, you know, I can tell you, we tended to be selective because we're paying for the, um, You know, you're paying to file, right? Yeah. And so when you had somebody who was on a fixed income, you knew, at least in my state, you couldn't be awarded a garnet. So did you have, do you need to have like if CBFB? CFPB. CFPB. Thanks. I'm so bad at acronyms. She's going to ask me a question I can't answer, but go ahead. So is that something that they could come and say, you're not treating everyone equally? And as long as you show that this is why we didn't pursue, you know. I honestly cannot say. I'm happy to confess here that we We pursued the ones where we knew we had employment information because those were the only ones that were really, there was anything to be. If we, if we couldn't locate the customer, we had no idea. We knew they no longer worked at the job that they were at before. There was really not as much to gain. Can we still file the judgment? Sure. But there was no financial, there was nothing financially beneficial for me in that. You had less, less probability. Yeah. Yeah. Of being able to collect. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm speaking for myself. And so I just tell you what we did. But, you know, that's really just a legal question. I can't be sure. Yeah. You know, I don't know why they would. I can't. I have a hard time putting that in any kind of context of discrimination. It's discrimination based on employment, I suppose, but that's pretty easy, objective kind of information. I just didn't know if there's – it's like it's either all or nothing kind of thing. It's an interesting thing to think about. I think I don't – I personally don't know of any reason that you would need to pursue them all. Gotcha. But I just think because, again, it's a practice of – I think it's not the intention – Even in my case, the goal was never to garnish wages from all the customers who defaulted on the contract. That was never the goal. And I didn't say that when we would go down the hall to mediation, I was prepared to accept a really small payment. Like I didn't volunteer that always, but I would just say they, I would be prepared to, you know, I just want to see the customer follow through on the contract and that can take forever. You know, the interest has stopped. You know, that's the other thing we didn't mention is typically when you charge off and the account becomes inactive, the interest stops forever. Like I'm not, you know, we're not trying to pile things on here. We just, I just want to see you follow through on the contract. Do you understand that you're still responsible even though the collateral has been disposed of? And that's, that's really where it ended for me. So, so it didn't need to be a big number. It was a matter of enforcement, a matter of principle, right? And a principle PLE, right? So it was just a matter of just kind of figuring out how to, you know, make sure the customer understood that we, we did enforce our agreement. So. Fahad I posted it just a second ago is like costs can add up when you file every single one every single collection that's true that's absolutely true well especially when it's a couple hundred dollars per it's like we've already been hit by a loss so you know go after the ones that that you have a better opportunity. Yeah. And so again, I expect people will be chiming in on the thread. You can sell that paper to us. So, you know, cause there are people that pursue it. And, and so now the question becomes, okay, so let's talk about that just for a minute. I know we're a little past 30 minutes, but let me just kind of cover this. If you did sell that paper to somebody else, now the question becomes, are they going to be filing action in your local? Or even if they don't go the courthouse route, if they're just hammering on customers through whatever other channels to collect that paper, how does that reflect on you as a creditor in that market? You know, when you do sell the papers, like what is going to be the enforcement measure? It's kind of the same thing to me as when you outsource collections to people that are I can't say the, you know, a H that, that are not very nice that are like, you know, just, uh, um, they're yeah. They sometimes are unscrupulous, like they use really questionable practices. Yeah, and it will reflect on you, too. Yeah, and so even though that paper now belongs to somebody else, you've sold the paper, it probably still bears your name when you have this account balance. So it's going to reflect on you indirectly. As that, you know, quote unquote collection agency, you know, or bulk buyer, you know, start to pursue those accounts. So you have to factor that in as you make a decision to sell the paper. It can go that direction. So we've heard those stories. So I'm sure people will chime in on that thread about that experience themselves. Absolutely. Have we fully discussed? I think so. Okay. So I'm kind of thinking it's time to start queuing up for outro music. Yeah. We've got stuff to do. It's Monday. We do. It's Monday. It's the start of a week. We have a busy week. So again, if you haven't got your ticket yet for the roundup, and it's Thursday morning, 10 a.m. Eastern, starting three hours later. that if you've got a ticket, you get access to the recordings afterwards. So make sure you get your ticket. They're being sold on Eventbrite. You can go to our website at bhphnationtv.com and it'll give you the link to get into it. And if you use the code morningshow, one word, that it will give you 75% off your ticket. I'm throwing on just before we wrap up. There's my phone number. If somebody's got an interest in that group four that meets tomorrow night, please reach out to me. Call or text 903-816-0216. And tomorrow night's group again is for 100 to 500 accounts. And so if you're in that range, then by all means reach out and let's talk about getting you in a VA group. All right. Have yourself a great rest of your day, everybody. We appreciate you joining us.
