Wake up, Buy Here, Pay Here people. It's a beautiful day. Go grab yourself another cup of Joe and say hello to Jim and Michelle Rhodes on the Buy Here, Pay Here morning show. Take it away, you two. hey good morning everyone we have the uh lovely michelle rhodes back on the podcast this morning joining from uh remote parts of uh central america good to see you michelle good to see you too I uh I can see that you're about three or four shades of tan darker that was the goal yeah All accomplished. Yes. Good job. So happy to have you coming home tonight. And I'll be at the airport plenty early to get you gathered up and get you back to home. Looking forward to it. Yeah. So got a couple of announcements quickly for our broadcast this morning. I've got a group four set to meet tomorrow night for V8. So if I heard from somebody today, we could conceivably still get them in there. We're talking to a handful of people on the, on that might still add another member or two. So just reach out if you have an interest in a V8 group that runs from 100 to 500 accounts and then group three, the newcomer group is set to meet on the 30th. And so that that's generally dealers who are brand new or up to a hundred accounts. So, Uh, look for, uh, reach out if you have an interest in, in participating in something like that. And then, um, I don't remember the exact date, but I'm hosting a dealer panel. I'm sorry, a panel. It'll be not just dealers. It'll be, um, a couple of, uh, Dealers and then expert Colin Kanilakis. We've got Steve Taylor, who is former director of acquisitions for America's Car Mart, will be on that panel along with Vicki Davis. And so excited to host that panel at NIADA. So we'll get you the dates on that. But we we hope everybody will be in the conference hall with us. The Wynn Hotel, I think, is where this one is, right? Yeah. Yeah. So look forward to that. OK. Any any news from your side? No news is good news. I got nothing, got nothing. I got to cancel some meetings today so I can clean up the house, you know, in the time. No, no stress. No worries. I'm so freaking zenned out. It's OK. No, I kept on top of it. But some plants, I'm afraid, you know, didn't make it. I had a feeling that would happen. I love you, honey. I love you so much. I love you more than my plants, which says an awful lot. Okay. Well, you know, you left me unsupervised. I know. I saw like the chicken pot pies and beer. Oh, yeah. You saw that. I did. I did. Yeah. It gives me a chance to really go off the reservation, whatever Michelle is. I get to kind of satisfy some cravings or what have you. Yeah. Let's get down to the business at hand, shall we? Sure. So today's topic is... is not about people okay let me say that part first it's not about individuals it's about a larger topic and granted it was inspired by some information that I received yesterday that probably many others have been paying attention to already I just didn't catch that there was something pretty significant happening in our industry. And this is on the heels of something that happened. We learned about a week or so ago, that's kind of in the category of integrity in our used car industry. And so today I just wanted to have a chance to bring forward this idea about, you know, speaking up and, and kind of making it known that we have an opportunity in the used car business to make a statement collectively. And I just wanted to have a chance to talk about it and get it out there. Some people, Michelle, sort of act like, are you sure you want to wade into that conversation? I want to do it. My attitude about it has changed a bit because I've really thought about it and sat on it. And I'm like, it's quite appropriate. It's quite appropriate to talk about this. And I mean, we're coming into our national conference or convention and, and, you know, there's just, there's a lot of, there's a lot of movement. There's a lot of shifting. There's a lot of changing. We, you know, we're seeing yeah, just, there's, there's just an awful lot happening. And it's, it's interesting as, as I observe all of the, all of these things that are coming out or, you know, to it's that I, for the life of me, do not think that the people that I know in this industry, all of the people that I know that I've met in this industry are awesome people. Sure. You know, it's a really great industry. And I think that sometimes there is a speaking before thinking, acting before thinking, but it doesn't mean that anyone is like, not a, not a good person. It's just that they're not, they're not getting kind of still with the decisions that they're making and making sure that there's, that they're, um, that they're just honest and transparent and full of integrity and that kind of stuff. that make sense well yeah I mean obviously that's the people that we meet and work with frequently and and I agree with you that you know the vast majority of people that we meet um even if we just connect with them through social the vast majority of them are out there trying to do the quote unquote right thing right trying to do right and be you know good solid members and neighbors of their communities and so yeah that's generally true I think I'm I'm thinking really about the the reputation of the used car industry when we talk about in a whole yeah yeah I'm just thinking you know we we recognize that the industry that we operate in uh you know our subset is buy here pay here but you know as a subset of larger used car industry It's pretty widely known that the used cars history has, you know, carry over a bit of a black eye from past stories and tends to be the only the ugly stories that make the news. Right. And so the reputation of the industry is. is important. And it's, it's an opportunity here. And this is why I say, I'm, I'm just, I'm just doing a cannonball into the deep end on this thing where I'm just like, it's, we got to talk about this stuff. We got to get, we really do. And then beyond that, we got to act, you know, so this is the part that I think is that I see it's, it's one thing to say, you know, integrity matters. It's another thing to, you know, we got dealers out there, putting the word trust in their logo like this stuff matters to them right like they're really stepping out there and and working to create and build on their own reputation in an industry that is um you know got some some black eyes and so I think what I'm really suggesting today is This is a time that I'm going to continue to encourage dealers to get off the sidelines. Like, you know, this is something, step in, add your voice. Yeah. The stuff, here's the thing, Michelle, the stuff we're talking about either matters or it doesn't. Agreed. And we really want to do something about it or we don't. And so this, again, it's not about any one individual. It's really about you. How do we collectively as a body across the industry, what actions can we take and do we want to, are we prepared to like this? I'm just, uh, you know, watching and to see, you know, what's going to be done about this stuff. And look, we got, we got great leadership, you know, at the national level, many of the states have, you know, excellent leadership and this conversation, by the way, we'll, we'll continue. Like we've got, yes. I wanna bring to the conversation. But go ahead, I can tell you. Hitchin' to jump in there. How well you know me. One of the things that I've really loved about, as we've developed White Hat Way, is it's not that it's new that any of the principles the white hat principles are new it's just putting them somewhere in a form of like this is kind of like a map or a charter or a or a guide to for dealers to, to start to weigh, measure their own actions, to, to, you know, look at how, how they're, how they're moving in their business, how they're navigating relationships with their customers, how they're, how they're navigating all these things through this. It's kind of like a map and, and I don't know about you, but I fuck, I mess up all the time. Okay. Sorry. beep. I do. And, and, you know, sometimes it's things that I've done that I just, I wasn't aware that I had a blind spot or I wasn't aware that, that the, the choices that I'm making are actually going to be a lot bigger and consequences to other people. I mean, I've done it. We've all done it. We've all made stupid, whatever things. And, and, you know, from my perspective, white hat way is like, let's, let's, Let's try to or what we're what we're doing with it is it's like, here's a map. Here's a charter. Here's a thing we can all come together under. And we and we we see dealers all the time that that that embody all of the principles of White Hat way. And it's like, let's just see. Let's just be so, so stand forward and be transparent. And then the other part of that is to not judge harshly. to not speak unkindly, to just, I mean, because in all ways we can be better. And I also see it's like we have an opportunity or I've watched patterns where someone does something or, you know, a thing happens. you know, legislators or the state comes after someone really harshly or, you know, whatever it is. And that there's this abhorrence that you see from everyone of like, oh my goodness. they're so bad or whatever. And it's just like, no, they're humans being humans, making poor choices. Sometimes give people a break. This is not, this is not who we are collectively. And we're going to stand together collectively under this, like we've created the white hat way, um, uh, appendix W that banner, but whatever banner it is, is just like finding a place, finding a way we know how to run businesses. We know how to, how to, you know, we talk all the time about, about, um, uh, PTIs and all of the things that, are we paying as close of attention to how we are being as a person, as a human, as a business owner, as someone that's interacting with other people every single day? Because like I said, we can go to classes all the time, the straight line stuff, the straight line stuff, it's out there. There's so many great teachers in that. But I sometimes wonder whether or not we spend enough time Or balance our focus on the things that matter that are about interpersonal relationships. Relationships, you know, and how we treat our customers, how we treat our neighbors, how we treat our other people in the business, how we treat people. And it's just like, gosh darn it, we can be better. We can be so much better. Right? I see so much good out there, but it's like we can be so much better. And I mean, that's all true. And I think, you know, for today, I also wanted to talk about the kind of just appearance as part of this, you know, and again, you know, I think most people will figure out what what issue is at hand here and why this topic is inspired to come around today. But it's it's not really about that, because if I think about It's really about leadership in the industry. Okay. And so, you know, that's, that's people volunteer to be leaders and in various roles and state and national positions. And it's not about today's leadership. In fact, I could say, we really are talking about this in the context of what does leadership at this association look like five, 10, 20 years from now? what do what do we want to look like you know we got here you got the the conference coming up and you got uh representatives from the ftc and the cfpb and the irs are going to be there yeah yeah industry right and so this is why this conversation becomes really important is like the the the optics matter here the it does appearances matter I mean they do They do. The word trust, really trust is super integral in, you know, everything that we talk about with White Hat Way. It's integrity. This, you know, today's I brought this kind of this appendix I, which is all around integrity, among other things. And it's really just meant to say, you know what, we're gonna stand up like I'm gonna act. I'm going to make sure that as a constituent of this industry, or as somebody who, you know, member of an association or not, you're a constituent of an industry and you want leadership of that industry to be representative. of your desires your interests and how you want the the industry to be viewed okay so this is why the the appearance part of this thing is significant to me like it's it really matters to me how you look as in the in the leadership positions And so this is why I think, you know, transparency is in order always. And we have to make sure that we're... And really, Michelle, it's about... It's so much bigger than the people involved. It's about... It is. It's about a mission and initiatives that are bigger than any one person. They're bigger than, you know, a collective board of people. It's bigger than that. It's like, what do we... What are we doing to make sure that we're leading this thing in the right direction years down the line? Which to me is why it is, you know, good business owners have really great self-esteem. They have a lot of confidence in who they are. They have confidence in their decisions. They have, they, you know, they, they, they don't, they don't step forward and then second guess themselves all the time, all of that. From my optics, it's essential that we let go of ego, like this ego of I'm right, or this is mine, or I'm better, Or I'm like even the best. It's like we need to let go of ego and come together because it's so important. I was thinking this morning as I was showering that we are really at this beautiful crossroads right now. You know, we have the We have the attention in a positive way from all of these governmental institutions that are going to be at the conference. We have it in a positive way. There has been so much inroads built and bridges built and all of that by our national association. It's like we're trying to help so that dealers are... are seen for the good that they're doing, are, you know, are, yeah. And that we aren't a bunch of selfish, greedy, um, whatever. And it's such a, it's such a, a really pivotal time. It feels like, um, and, and I have, I like, I see so much good in this industry. I see so much good in this industry and, and it's really time for all of those that believe that, that speak that, that live that that, you know, haven't that, that try to measure their choices and their decisions every day through integrity. And, and, you know, I, I don't, I don't really speak of myself as a religious person or any of that, but it's, I look at like good Christian values of that kind of thing. It's like being good to each other and, and, you know, being kind and, you know, the like, don't judge. Cause we're all kind of messy too. And, and it's like, we really, we do. I have so much hope. I really, I have so much just, it just, it pivotal time. I know that we can, that we are rising above the old paradigm and It's time. It really is a beautiful time for all of those, for us all to stand together and just be like, we're better. We're going to be better every day. We're going to try to be better. We're going to try to be kinder. We're going to try to be more honest with our fellow man. We're going to try all of these things. Because you know what, dealers out there? There's so, there's so many of you have, have your businesses. It's like, I, you know, you might be learning little things here and there and you've got your stuff dialed in. And this is an industry where everyone kind of gets to do their, do it their own way. There's no wrong way of doing this. And, and that's beautiful. Beautiful. Jared. To you, Jared. Love you. Love you, Jared. I wish you well. And yeah, Jared's obviously somebody who's been in leadership in our industry and has lived these things that we're talking about. And I think what you're talking about, Michelle, in your Zen state. And I'm looking for more. I'm looking for more today than hope. Okay. I'm looking for action. I'm looking. Yeah. We're looking for action. This matters. And I'm prepared to take. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to add my signature to something or I'm going to look forward and I'm going to do more because that now you can be hopeful. Now you can see people are starting to do something about it. Like this. I think is, is the piece that I, you know, I'm, I'm older than you are. Like, Me? You? Not much. This is something that I'm starting to lose a little patience around. We know that used car dealers are busy. They're out there on their Hampshire wheels and they're busy buying cars and trying to collect some car payments. They're busy. I think what we're asking them to do today is stop for a few minutes. Stop for 10 minutes And let's talk about one, what is it that you want to create in your business? Like, let's just, just stop thinking about the price of cars and just step over here with us for a minute and just talk about what do you want to create in your business? And what do you want your life to look like in the future? And how much of these things that we're talking about here matter to that strategy? Like, Do you count on leaders at the top of the industry to work to shift this industry? And listen, I don't mean to say that they aren't. There are plenty of people out there working. We've worked directly with many of them. And there are plenty of people out there working to make a difference and are very mindful of the reputation of this industry. I'm simply saying. dealers as members of associations and it's whether it's the state level national level like where dealers are the constituents and dealers are these members that are being served I'm simply asking dealers to act to show that this stuff really matters to you because if you don't guess what it's probably going to remain the same and we can continue to stand over there and hope But unless we start to act, unless we get off the sidelines and start to actually take some steps forward, then, you know, then some of this stuff doesn't really move. And so this, I'm just kind of energized to, to take some action. And I'm going to show, I can tell you have something more to add. I'm going to show that appendix. You know me so well, sweetie, you're going to show the thing. Are you waiting for me to say my thing? You can say it as we show the thing. Show the thing. I may have to. This is incomplete, folks. It's something that I created last evening and made a few adjustments this morning. And Michelle hasn't even had a chance to review it. So we will. He does this to me all the time. And I'm always just like, so it's like, oh, my gosh, that's so good. So I'm grateful. Absolute trust. So I think what, um, are you still seeing the screen in the same way? I made a shift. I am. I'm, um, yeah. I can change the view whenever I did what I did. Let me just kind of read through this quickly. This is appendix I, and you know, it's a statement of integrity. So, you know, this is not, um, it's not a petition. It's just a statement. It's just people stepping forward and making a statement. And I, um, These other words, image and intention, kept arising in my thoughts as I'm preparing this. And so I just added them to the appendix I. So this was drafted by yours truly. And this just says, I'm gonna read it to everybody for those who would be on audio catching this after the fact or maybe busy at their desk and can't see the screen. It says, my signature at the close of this document affirms my wish to see the following upheld in all leadership positions in my industry, especially to the extent that those in leadership represent the collective reputation of the segment where I conduct business. Okay, so now it goes on. This is fairly brief. It basically just says, image, when it comes to earning trust, I believe that appearances matter. As a constituent of the used car industry, I wish to see those in leadership maintain an image of being honorable and trustworthy as the faces of, in quotations, faces of the industry. And then integrity. I believe that making intentions known and visible at all times is essential to establishing trust. Acting in a way that is consistent with those stated intentions serves to maintain trust and integrity. I view integrity as being vital to effective leadership, especially in an industry viewed by many as being disreputable. And then mission intention. I believe the industry's mission is greater than any one person or group. As such, it is my desire to see leaders in my industry act consistently to uphold its adopted code of ethics and to always put the mission first. And then lastly, I have something about communication, which I have a little more work to do, but it says, I believe that when problems arise in a relationship, business or otherwise, the key to successfully navigating beyond the issue at hand is open communication that is both civil and mutually respectful so you know we can all take um you know some advice around you know communication we all need to continue to work to to education and so on but any any thoughts to add to that michelle anything that you saw there I love it. Like I said, I absolute trust because I know that you have the words to describe the thing. It sounds, feels, and looks absolutely beautiful. It represents my you know it represents some inspired action on my part now it's incomplete it's just the the initial inspiration there's probably some more that can be added but it's really about if you think about that in the way that that is written we're just trying to ask um dealers to and by the way it can be others outside the industry if you everything that I read right here Um, you could be anybody who could be an associate, could be a, uh, an affiliate, a family member. It's like people just saying, yeah, I think the used car industry has an opportunity. And I think, you know, it's important for leadership in the used car industry too. in order to make strides in some of these areas that these, these things can be upheld. So it's, it's basically just a super small step that dealers can take to say, yes, I would add my signature to that. Yes. I definitely want to ask an industry and the industry leadership to, you know, operate in these ways. And so that's, that's it. And so it's like, it's to me, it's like that, that difference between, and I'm just going to say it like we're either, we either really mean this stuff or we're just giving it lip service. We're either going to talk about it. And so this again harms our reputation because we kind of say that we, we, this stuff matters to us, but we don't act in a way that, affirms that and so this is an opportunity to act and just a small step we're not calling anybody out we're simply saying this is how I would like to see leadership you know, the lens that I would like leaders to think through when they represent me and my business in the used car segment. So that's today, most of what you read there could apply to any industry. It's, it's not really, it's about just how do we want to function when they represent us? And then it's, it's a little bit different for us in the used car industry when it's about, you know, we, we come in with this sort of black eye and, And so now it becomes especially important because there's a sort of a magnifying glass around, you know, the leadership and the strategies and the intentions, you know, the industry. And listen, I, you know, I just want to put in a good word for the leadership that we know back at the National Association in particular. they're working to accomplish these things. I just think they need to hear from us as dealers. I say us, I think of myself like them because I'm a former dealer and I work with dealers all the time. And certainly I'm doing the best I can this morning to speak on behalf of many of the dealers that we know. And so this is about, it's about an opportunity to just step forward, make intentions known, make wishes known, And and for many at the National Association in particular, this won't change a thing. This is what they're doing already. Right. Just think hearing from dealers is going to be an important way for them to be able to know that, in fact, dealers are, you know, acting. behind their words. It's more than words for them. And so this is a comment here. Let me scan the incoming comment. to me, one of the words that bubbles up an awful lot is accountability, is being accountable to our actions, being accountable to our image, being accountable to all these things. And it really, it strikes me, because I hear and kind of get the gist of how some people have about this, and it occurs to me that that there might be a lot of people out there that don't think this matters. And it's so, it matters so much. You know, we, if you step back and you look at the things that are happening in the world when it comes to business and, and the, the, the underdog and all of that, and that it, this, the, the optics, the, the watching and the awareness that people have, um, in all of the people, like our customers and all that, their awareness is increasing and their awareness of this isn't right or their awareness of this isn't fair or their thoughts that these things aren't fair, it's important. And we have such a beautiful opportunity to see that, how businesses interact with customers is changing. And it's, it's a really great place for this to start. The change is within our industry, because we as business owners work with people that have been the disadvantage that have been all of these things. And, and regardless of whether or not we agree with what the, the, the, the governmental institutions or the guidelines that they're putting out there, or if we agree with what is the predominant thought of so many people out there that it's like there's way too much here and there's not enough here and and it's not fair and all that it's like you know what agree with it or not it is our reality and and and it is it's very very important it's very important for this for for us to stand together and speak and recognize that this is very important. When Jim was talking about like, what do you want? He's not talking about balance sheets. He's not talking about all of that kind of stuff. He's like, how do you want to be known and perceived and trusted. And do you want to be known as someone in this industry, whether it be with your customer or other dealers or vendors or state institutions or whatever? Do you want to be known as someone full of integrity, someone full of transparency, someone full of honesty, someone full of kindness? Right. And and those kind of things. So it's, you know, the whether or not we feel comfortable in the idea that this is the world we live in today, that these things matter and they matter so deeply. And the sooner that we can we can step into that and understand that it's going to it's it's going to help really shift the optics of this industry in a big way, in a beautiful way. And I think you touched on something there about the perception piece. You know, you've heard me say it's something I developed way back, even before I was in the car business, when I was in the retail and sporting goods business, I kind of picked up this idea that You know, when it comes to customer engagement, in this case, it's more than that. But I kind of try to live by in business this idea that the customer's perception is my reality. So in this case, you can make that about dealers and whatever else. But the reality that we live with is that how we're perceived is in the industry on a collective level or individual level how we're perceived is the reality that we live with in our businesses all the time and so perception matters and and we can choose to be angry about that we can choose like that's not fair that's not right it doesn't matter it's like if if this if this is the perception then how do we heal that perception not your perception is wrong it's like it's their perception right it's it's valid from their vantage point they may not have all the information whatever um and I and I'm always those of you who follow me on facebook it's like I'm always coming up it's like I saw a new way of saying hey this person's perception is completely different from mine but it's as accurate as mine because I'm you know and and that's that's we're asking we're asking dealers to step out of their perception and try to step into others the governmental institution's perception, the customer's perception, and because there is validity in all of those, and we can kick and scream, and we can say this is not fair, or they're a bunch of idiots, or whatever we want to do, fine, you can. It's not going to change the tide that's happening where it's like these things matter deeply, deeply. Yeah, and I think, you know, going back to just some sort of action, I want to share the Facebook poll that I put out there yesterday. And it has, I don't know if you can see that. I'm going to get where I can view it and kind of read, excuse me, read what it says. But I just asked in the poll last evening, only in the BHB Success Group, I said, does having integrity and earning a level of trust matter to you in the leadership positions in the top of the used car industry? And I can read the answers for those who aren't seeing the screen. The first answer was yes, absolutely. The next one was nah, no need to expect that in our used car industry. And the last one was not sure. I'm still deciding if integrity matters. So I left it where people could write in their own answers. haven't written any other answers in as of this morning, but all of the respondents so far have said, yes, absolutely. Having integrity and a level of trust matters in leadership positions at the top of the used car industry. So it just, you know, I felt like we, we, I felt like we knew what people would say to that moment to click one of the responses, but it's it's really just meant to kind of, to find out, you know, do we, do these things really matter to us? Do we think that that's important? And now the next thing for me, and the reason this is going to be an ongoing conversation is, what do we do about it? When there's... something to be resolved, are we going to step forward and add our voice to it? Are we going to take any kind of action? I don't care if it's a button on a survey. Are we going to add our signature to a document? It's like, are we going to do something about it? Or are we just talking? And in that action, when we choose to do something about it, I would really encourage people to do it out of Not out of, I want to say this is just deserved rewards for this person. It's like stepping into, I'm not going to judge harshly. I'm going to be kind. There are natural consequences to things. We have to understand that when we do things that are unscrupulous, There are natural consequences. But we have the opportunity to be like, I'm not judging you as a person or whatever. The action was not okay. Natural consequences. How do we move on? How do we get better? How do we do better tomorrow? Yep. No, I get it, I think we probably covered it, I think the again the document is still got a few tweaks Michelle will be back here tonight I'm sure we will have a chance to spend some time with it in the coming days and then we'll we'll distribute it and ask. dealers to, you know, pledge some level of support at a signature. Yes. Yeah. And let's, let's start to, to, you know, just, just spread the word that this stuff really does matter to some, at least with a signature, they're prepared to step forward and, and say, yes, this stuff is important to me. And this is what I look for out of leadership. You know, in my industry where I make a living so so that's what the future hold just we can wrap up just a couple of quick reminders again I've got a group for that group with 100 to 500 accounts that V8 group meets tomorrow night so reach out right away if you'd like to get a spot in the month of May. And then group three, the newcomer group meets on the 30th. So we've got those things coming up. And again, we'll come back to you probably with some information on Friday about this Appendix I and how to get involved and add your support to take some sort of action to send the message. And while you're in the process of action, J-Y-S-O. Join your state association if you haven't already. Hashtag J-Y-S-O. Let's wrap up there, Michelle. I look forward to having you home. We'll get you back to Utah and I can start eating stuff that's not in a box again. That'll be good for my health and wellness. we had guests and uh so prepared a few things uh you know for the guests but uh Anyway, glad to have you home. Travel safe. We'll see you at the airport this evening. And folks, thanks for tuning in. We'll be back here on Friday and probably have some follow-up information again about today's subject. I've also got, I didn't share the photo today. I cannot wait to share with the audience the photo that I came across today. From 2001, when I was a young consultant in a jacket and a tie, I looked like a school kid. And I can't wait to show that photo. And I'm going to be preparing a blog post that's about what the guy that you see today knows that that guy back then didn't know. And so there's quite a lot of interesting things to be able to pass along in that regard. So I look forward to having a chance to bring that back and talk about that. The things that I've learned. you know, in my, in my career. So join, join us on Friday and maybe that'll be our subject for Friday.