Wake up, Buy Here, Pay Here people. It's a beautiful day. Go grab yourself another cup of joe and say hello to Jim and Michelle Rhodes on the Buy Here, Pay Here morning show. Take it away, you two. Hey, good morning. Happy post-camping trip. Yeah, there you go. Happy Monday. We're back in studio, back at home, back in our own bed. And like fussing and fiddling. Yeah, we're a little bit delayed. Oh, I got some weird going on over here with the light. yeah obviously we're rusty over here I apparently something like that yeah um so happy monday it's uh was a fantastic you guys uh we had a great week up in the we brought a couple of photos and uh videos a video to share about I have more but I you know I kind of got busy this morning and didn't didn't share them so I might share them on wednesday Yeah, for sure. You've got a family matter going on. I have a family matter going on and I may be heading out of town later on today. I may tag along. Yeah, which would be fun. So what do you want to show first? Oh, from the trip? Yeah. Just show our tent there. I snapped a photo in the evening. In the evening, it was all lit up. It was so awesome. We do, right now, tent camping, and it was, oh my goodness. Some folks know we did some RVing for a long stretch. We did. It was nice. Yeah. And we did tent camping before that, and now we're doing tent camping again. Cause the RV is still in storage in Florida and we're, we're planning on selling that. But yeah, so, but we just love the outdoors. So that, that is. So many stories about the tent and the camping experience. It was a great week. We ended up doing four nights. We ended up doing four nights and, um, I'm going to add this one. This is just one of the, Jim was out, uh, looking for firewood, this cell phone photo. And I'm like, I will frame that and put it on a wall or something. Cause it's just so pretty. I've always been a big fan of Aspens. Anytime you can get amongst the Aspens, it's a good day. And our tent, that lake where we go is kind of, we went last summer as well and we decided we wanted to return to the same spot cause we just enjoyed it so much. And, uh, It's over 9,000 feet in elevation up there. Well, at the lake. At the lake. And then we climbed another at least 1,000 feet. Yeah, we probably were. So I was going to show that if that's... Or, you know, you're boondocking for those not familiar. That means you don't have services. It's pretty much so like really primitive camping. Although, where we go, they do have a vault toilet. Yeah, that's exciting. So that's really exciting. Well, I mean, but we've, we've done camping where they don't. And so we've been out when we were RVing, when we were RVing, we did that. But so it just a really, really amazing, great refresher. I think we're going to be kind of, we've been talking about some of the, our takeaways when it comes to business. And we'll be talking about that on Wednesday. Yeah. We were in camp for four and a half days, four nights, whatever campfire most of the time. And we, we never talked any business. We didn't know the whole, we didn't. And so there were a couple of times it started to creep in and it was like, Nope, Nope, not doing it. So we just totally stayed away from work stuff and unplugged. And it was, it was good. It's, it's obviously healthy, right? Oh my gosh. Yeah. And oh, there's, we'll be sharing some pictures on Wednesday about I cooked on a fire. And good morning, Jared. So yeah, I got to cook on a fire with my cast iron skillet. And we made steaks. And did a lot of like roasting things on a stick kind of stuff over the fire. But it was great. Michelle brings out her inner Laura Ingalls. Like for those who are younger viewers don't know. That's Little House on the Prairie. Well, and it's not just that. But it's like I also weave in a lot of my... project, not project manager, but my optimization. Because that's just how my brain works. It's like, how do you optimize? How do you consolidate? And so Jim, the whole time was like, stop. It's too much work. And I'm like, no, it's fun. He's like, no, it's too much work. We talked about it before, but we just come from very different backgrounds in terms of how we can't. How we do the outdoors. So Michelle has got all the stuff. Well, but I'll tell you what, next time we go camping like that, that it's going to be because he was kind of upset, not upset. Upset is not the word. He was like, you're spending a lot of time prepping for this. And then while we were there, you're spending a lot of time streamlining this. But most of the work is done. So I know, you know, it's like this is the way. And so Jim and I have decided that I may be going camping without him. She enjoyed that. And so while she's optimizing camp, I'm just grabbing my fishing rod and I'm off to the lake. Oh, we did have trout. Yeah, it was delicious. It was really good. We enjoyed that. Good morning, Karen. Hi, Karen. Good morning, Jared in Arizona. And, um, okay. So, so to our topic, to our topic of the day, I didn't get a chance to look up exactly how many accounts or sales this represents. I might be able to figure it out as we talk here. But, um, what I did is in the limited time we had this morning, I pulled together actual data from a single V8 dealer group across six months. So this is pretty significant because you've got Even though we have larger data pools and I can eventually bring back more information about this kind of thing in these same numbers. I would ask dealers just think about, especially dealers that are brand new, who don't have a point of reference. They don't know how their dealers are really doing it. And they're asking questions on Facebook, how people price their cars and this and that. Dealers that are brand new. This is the primary reason why we started this podcast. is just to really help dealers understand all the pieces. And try to always be mindful of those dealers when we talk about any of the stuff we talk about because I want them to be able to have a resource, a place where they can get some information. And so what I've done is taken the dealer names off of the – I've created one graph. I've got one table to be able to share information. But I would just say that, just remember, this is hundreds of deals, hundreds of sales. Over the course of? Across six months. Okay. Across multiple states. So this is an aggregate. Right. Of all of the things. Averages. Okay. And the average is, like I say, from January to June. So we didn't quite have all of our July data in for me to be able to utilize that. So I just went back to June. And so you're looking at the first half of the year. All of the sales that were originated by these dealers. And so I think it's, it's, it's a valid point of reference, especially for dealers that are brand new. So we might share first, let me get on the screen. This tile that has the, this is going to be difficult to read. I don't know, Michelle, if you can zoom in on that at all, but I'll try to do this a little bit. If you, yeah, if you can zoom a little in a little bit. So this first one is, I can't even see. Okay, so let me, for those, and we can do it for those who would be listening by audio anyway. Yeah, and if you want to see the graphs and you're not on one of our social media channels and you're on one of our syndicated podcast stations, please go to YouTube and see the video. Absolutely. So this would be – and I'm just going to do a quick check on volume, see what I could tell dealers just about how much volume is represented here. I'm going to full screen this for me. So this is a six-month rolling average deal structure. The things that we're talking about are sales price, inventory cost with recon, gross profit, amount financed, average down including net trade, calculated add-ons, calculated cash and deal, Rate of return, which is gross and divided by inventory cost. Gross to cash and deal rate. Okay, I didn't see the I because I don't have my glasses on. Average payment, average months to break out, average months to potential gain, and average terms. So let's talk about that. Yeah, let's go through each piece. So first of all, the selling price came in an average of 14, just over 14,000. And this was hundreds of deals in the last six months. Over six months, yeah. Multiple dealers across multiple states. Multiple size dealerships, too. Yeah. Oh, I should add that. This group is, I only work with data for the groups that are 100 to 500. Okay, so the mid-range. Yeah, mid-range portfolio size is kind of typical of what we see. I would be interested to see how that would change when you add... the the larger groups to this yeah it's not that different I mean you know these are smaller groups right v8 is up to eight dealers in a group so um you know and we have two groups of um of the 100 100 to 500 and we're adding now another group of 500 to 2000 so there will be more you know data to uh work from uh soon okay so let's talk selling price Selling price is just over $14,000 for an average with this group. The average inventory cost, including reconditioning. Including reconditioning. So we don't put anything like tag and tax or anything like that in these numbers. We don't typically include transportation costs. So you've just got the actual reconditioning cost of the vehicle. Now some dealers, and we have it. I guess for this illustration, you could figure that transportation cost is included. I would love to see sometime a breakout aggregate of what dealers are spending on recon. Yeah. Well, we've got that. I could refer to it with this group. But if you look at the average inventory cost, because I was really, for today, I wanted to zero in on some key ratios. And in particular, we still hear dealers talking about pricing. You know, we just did our V8 Plus session on pricing, and we had the experts come and talk to us about pricing. you know, what they recommended in terms of markup and so on. And we still hear a lot of dealers talking about using a strategy, you know, double your cost and add some back. I mean, this is less than that. Yeah, it is. But not by much. Right. So your gross profit on these deals came out to be just over $6,000. The average for these dealers was $6,100. The loan amount, amount financed was just over $13,000. Because that's the amount after the down. So the average down, again. The average down came in right at $2,000, $19.99. And I rounded all these numbers, so everything we're talking about is a rounded figure. And then so I've got the calculated add-ons, which average with this group. Okay, talk to me about what the add-ons are. Add-ons are going to be sales tax, any kind of tag and tax-related things that are in the transaction that aren't in the selling price. Would service contracts? It would be part of that service contract. And I think I didn't break it out here, but we have typically the detail available on whether or not there's a service contract. I would say with this group, that's a pretty low rate of service contracts. And then calculated cash and deal. Then if you just take the the cost in the car minus the down payments. So they've got about almost 6,000 risk on the road. Right. And again, in cash and deal, I'm not including add-ons. You could, and you could add that to this number if you chose to. It's just the asset. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it's just the cost of the car minus the down payment, which in my case included net trade, which net trades are nearly nothing, almost no dealers. The number of trades is always low, and then the amount of equity in those trades is low. So it's pretty negligible. Oh, I could just open up a can of worms. Should I do it? No. Okay, never mind. We don't do worms on Monday, honey. Well, I do worms all the time. Yeah. So, no, this is, oh, by the way, I learned a new fishing technique on this trip. Oh, we'll have to talk about that. Yeah, we will. This is the way you poor folks have to listen to our ADD distractions, our changes and squirrels. Yeah, squirrel. So now, so what that calculates to gross to cash and deal ratio. Let me first talk about rate of return. So rate of return comes in at 80%. Talk to me about what that means. That is the gross profit divided by the cost. Some people would look at gross margin instead, which is gross profit divided by the selling price. they're just different variations of the same thing basically so what what is it that you're trying to get to is there uh you know if like if you were to say this is a um uh why this matters to know and where it's kind of coming from like how you come up with that you know one of the big takeaways from our v8 plus thing on pricing markup was you know all the experts we had Steve Burke, Brent Carmichael, Jimmy Rambo, they all spoke to this thing in different ways. And all the same questions, but different kind of theories on the thing. But they pretty much all arrived at this place of your gross profit is really meant to cover your operating costs. You really want to price relative to operating costs. And they generally said when you can price for less, your, your loan performance will be better. So less markup, less term. Mm-hmm. It means more success. So when you're looking at these numbers, would these numbers fit into less or would these numbers fit into more? I would say these are less. I mean, there are dealers out there with more gross profit per deal than what these are. And there are certainly dealers out there with higher rate of return. Now, keep in mind, these numbers are... Moved a little bit just by almost four since COVID. When Costa Car shot up. It's been long enough now, though, that it's like, I think everyone is like, oh, those were the good old days. And it's probably never going to go back to what it was before COVID. Not quite like that, probably. So I think, yeah, I think it's an interesting thing. We hear people talking about COVID. Oh, it's another squirrel. Yeah. Squirrel. Yeah. Yeah. So look at us resisting squirrels today. So the, the rate of return is just, it's a reflection of your markup relative to your cost. So this is where people were doubling and adding. Okay. So instead of it being a hundred percent, if you were like fully doing that, it's 80%. Okay. Now I get it. All right. Thank you. It's not, you know, quite have as much gross profit as you have cost. So this is where, you know, this is different for some dealers out there, you know, and we have dealers still using that model, you know, that are inside this V8. But as they see this and what you also have a chance, obviously in the V8 thing, we're just talking about the snapshot of what the deals look like at the time they're originating. Yeah. what you don't have here is a way to tie that to well which dealers have the best portfolio performance which will know that we were tracking those kind of things so you would begin to start to make those correlations okay um possum okay now for those of you guys that are listening uh squirrel is completely different subject possum is a different subject within this subject and I came up with years ago so that we could be clear so I could be prepared when she started into her story is this a toe No, it's not. So this does also keep in mind is that there's, there, loss is not associated, loss is not in here. And so this is if your, if your portfolio or your contract is, works till payoff. This is what this looks like. And so, so there's, there's, it would be interesting to, to say, what is the average on loss or, you know, repo loss, and then run those numbers by the side and say, this is, this is, this is what your phantom profit looks like. And this is what your actual profit is likely to look like. Good. Yeah, we have that. We have that kind of illustration of what we're doing. So let me also talk about the gross to cash and deal ratio, which is a number that I started tracking many years ago with some dealers. Because in my way of thinking about this, if you look at rate of return, just profit relative to cost, that's fine. But when the car's sitting on the lot, that's one thing, what you have for markup. And the example I always give is if you have two dealers across the street from one another and they both are buying their cars for X and selling for Y, they have the same markup and same selling price. Then but if one dealer gets 3000 down on average and the other dealer gets 1000 down on average, then now suddenly the gross profit relative to the risk that we're taking is different. So that's why I always add it as an additional point of reference. Just say, you know, so that average for those not seeing the screen, it's 110% after we factor in the down payment. So I just asked you to look at that and think about what that can mean, because we don't have any risk until the customer takes delivery. So our markup relative to the risk is really, to me, a more significant number than the cost in the car. I mean, why do we care about how much markup we have relative to the cost? I mean, we care, but it's like, ultimately, it's our risk in that contract when the customer takes delivery. That's what matters. Because it's that phantom profit thing, very much so. And we see younger dealers especially just get really concerned hyped up on look at all this money I'm making and it's like getting intoxicated like they get a little bit intoxicated they do the gross profit and so it can be it can be deceptive and so that's why uh I can tell you that in our what you called phantom profit just now um that Steve Burke referred to it as monopoly money. It's fake money. I've heard him say that before. We've known Steve for years and him using that monopoly money. I'm like, that's a term people can understand better than phantom profit. It's monopoly money right now. I hope I'm remembering right, but I think Jimmy Rambo called it funny money. Funny money, monopoly money. And that's just when he acquires that stuff, he calls that monopoly money. And like I say, Rambo's funny money. It's like, so if you're not going to really collect it. So we broke that all down and talked it all through. But I think back to this gross cash and deal ratio, it's like when you just think about that is what is your gross profit relative to your risk? And so maybe when you factor that in, you could justify a little less risk. profit, again, got to look at your operating costs. Why? Because generally speaking, your interest income is meant to cover your net losses on your portfolio, right? The losses that you will experience over there. So now your markup is really to cover your costs of doing business, right? Yeah, your overhead. Right, right. So this is why we think it's important to keep an eye on that. So now the average payment came in at $526. Which is higher than I thought it would be, but it has gotten a lot higher since COVID. It has. Because, I mean, pre-COVID, it was like in the 400s. Probably. I mean, we don't have the same data for the same groups pre-COVID currently. We've got some. It would be interesting, dealers that are listening, yeah, pipe in. It would be interesting to find out how people's pricing has changed. Yeah. And it also begs the question, and we talked about this pretty specifically back when the COVID thing started ramping up, is like, we got to be careful because you push the payments up. Why? Because we're trying to keep to a certain term. Because the cars were more expensive. And is that, has the customer's income gone up? Not a dime. So I think... Well, actually it did during COVID. Right. That people were getting... A certain segment was. What did they call it? Living wage. Yeah. That. And... Possum. It's interesting as you talk to different dealers and you ask them about their ability to collect during that time. And most dealers collected better when people had more money in their pocket. People weren't spending the money on frivolous things. They were paying their fricking bills. So yes, done. Okay. So I think the payment then is... We watch that and we urge dealers to look at their payments relative to the customer's net income. So there's ratios there that we encourage dealers to keep an eye on. And so again, what you're looking at here, now I start to move into months to break out. So just to clarify, most anybody would not really probably look at this number unless they're involved in a dealer 20 group. That's a number that 20 groups typically would look at. So I just looked at average term. And I said, okay, if our average term in this group was running 33.6 months... That's fantastic. Why? Well, because it's under three years. Yeah, yeah. And that's something that you've... You've coached to try to keep it under, you know, like a 36 months right around there. It's an interesting balance. It's like, it depends on cost of car. I mean, I really am generally just advocating for the shortest term that's reasonable for both the dealer and the consumer. So that's going to be relative to income. We've got to make sure the income stays reasonable. you know, that the payment stays comfortable relative to the income. And then I just want the money in the bank as quickly as possible because I want to see the customer not end up in a negative equity situation. I want a shorter note and I want to trade them more frequently. So kind of that's the further explanation of why. So 11 months to break up. And so that means let me see if I get it right. Sure. That means in 11 months of collecting payments, you no longer have risk on the road. Correct. And so everything that comes in after that, so under a year is now your gross profit or it's your profit. I call it potential gain. And the reason I do that is because we've got both. Um, and I just chose that label years ago because you've got in that both interest earnings and profit or markup on the call. So when I shift to this calculation, um, When you say your average term is 33.6, and you say in 11.2 months, I'm out of my risk window, then the rest has got to be profit. I have a question for you. That 11 months to break out, is that applying both interest and principal? Um, yes, it is. So it's like all the money coming in. I'm glad you asked that question. Cause yeah, that that's applying the $526 average payment and you just take your, your cash in deal. So if you're splitting your payments and saying the actual inventory cost or your cost in deal is what you're putting back in and you're saving your interest and that's like your, that's, that's your money to play with. It's going to take you a lot longer than 11 months. Yeah. And I would say, uh, the other thing that just popped into my head as we talk about that, cause we, I haven't heard anybody mentioned in a while, but sometimes you'll hear dealers, especially newer dealers, they'll start to look at something like risk in the deal and they'll say, well, i don't have any risk in this deal it's a repo so I really only have you know 600 in recon in this car so one payment I'm broken out I'm thinking please don't do that to yourself because why well because it it's it's a false it's a false view it's an incomplete view of where you're at with that deal You have foregone the cash that you could have collected from the sale of that repo, right? You chose not to take the cash in that. So you have real risk in this contract again. And you have real operating expense, not to mention the cost of acquiring the customer that you just financed. Because you're saying, I financed two customers twice. And I only earned on one. And that's just that's no way to run a business. I mean, if we're going to finance two customers, we have a cost of acquiring both of those customers. We're going to have the personnel required to support that whole machine that got us to the place where we could finance two customers. And it's just it's a really incomplete view of what's happening in your business. And I think it's just. While it's interesting to note it, I think it's a mistake to really... Instead of saying, my cash and deal is already taken care of on this repo, and so it's just this. But what it's costing you is if you could have kept that person in the car and collected payments for another year or more, that's what your cost is. And so it's like if you say, you know, I collected a thousand dollars or I broke even on that, but then you didn't collect another seven thousand dollars, then you're under seven, potentially under seven thousand dollars. Yeah. I guess the simplest way I've tried to explain that customer. Yeah. I don't even think about it so much as that other customer. I try to ask dealers to think of it in terms of two separate transactions. And so we have all the separate costs associated with that. So, so I guess the simplest way that I would ask dealers to, to think about it is if I, if I repossess a car, that has a wholesale value of $6,000, run it to the auction today and it would bring $6,000. Then I'm going to assign that value to the car and I'm going to treat that like that's my cost in that car because it's cash that I chose not to bring back into my business. I decided to forego the recovery of that $6,000. So that's now my real cost in this car. Now I got reconditioning and that other transaction is over with. Close it out, done, written off, whatever. And it's like, now you're buying a new car. And to make it even further to illustrate the point is I could, if I went to the auction with that car, that repo, and I sold it for $6,000 and I bought another car in the lane over for $6,000 and brought it back in. totally different transaction. It is anyway, in my way of thinking, but because we would often encourage dealers to do that, to liquidate their repos through a public environment so that they can document, you know, that they treated the customer fairly in that regard. And now, uh, you, you just, they're two separate transactions. And I think you just got to be careful about, you know, treating it as though you don't have any real costs in that deal because at the minimum you're foregoing the cost of acquiring that next customer. And so there's other, there's other things to consider. But so for that reason, I would just say all these numbers, you know, these dealers are following those practices I'm talking about. They are assigning a wholesale value in their repos. But so these, this, these costs that we have in here, um, What I currently can't tell you is out of the hundreds of cars that were sold, I don't know what percentage of those were repos. But I do know there's a real wholesale value assigned to those repos. Should we show the other chart? Sure, yeah. Okay, I'm going to put that in and we're going to... Yeah, so this is risk in turn. It's kind of cutting off for some reason in the way that I... i don't know if you can change the view on that but it's kind of trim it it's cutting it off on my side but um a little bit yeah but bottom line is what you're seeing there is it's kind of the same numbers that we talked about but all the different dealers individually and I just put again generic labels on each one so you've got so there are yeah there's a few that are um most of them are pretty aligned with how things are working yeah you can see that the one dealer's average term that dealer number one their average term and you can't see the headings on that so I can tell you that um the or not the you can't see the the axis on there so that green bar on the left of dealer one that's just over 40 months so that dealers actually run about a 41 month term and then the orange is the potential profit That dealer is at about 25, 26 months of potential profit versus about 13, 14 months of risk. I didn't say when we were talking about that average risk, I was surprised to see that average months to breakout come in at 11 months. We've been seeing out of most of our groups, I would say they're more like in the 13, 14 month range. And we used to, pre-COVID, we pretty much had everybody running below 12 months of risk. And now it's longer. But this group, when you averaged it out, it was at 11. It was. This particular group across a pretty good pool of data is 11 months. There's a couple of dealers in there that are breaking out pretty quickly. quickly right so that blue line is your average months to break out so you're right those those lowest ones were at about seven or eight months so keep in mind I choose in this model for real simple I don't calculate the I don't allow for the tag and tax which is another payment or two typically depending on what sales tax rates are and cost of transferring titles and those kind of things can be another payment or two so that's not in this calculation so just be aware But yeah, I think we covered the parts that I wanted to illustrate today. I think it's just we're just trying to give folks a glimpse. And again, we'll bring more of this kind of data, larger pools. You know, we'll have July data in here pretty soon. We'll be able to bring stuff back and talk about it. But just trying to give people who are kind of on an island out there and don't have a good point of reference except for. chit-chat at the auction with other dealers. Or waiting for like the annual conference at NIDA or being in a 20 group. Right, right. And so, you know, I was just kind of thinking about this as I was looking at all the numbers and the graphs and everything. It's like, Jim has been wanting to Well, Jim has accomplished what he's been wanting to accomplish is to get a hold of data for the benefit of the dealers because we have our own data, but this, you know, through V8 is it's actually giving us access to larger bits of data because this information is so helpful to all dealers and it's helpful to the other dealers in V8 and it's helpful to all the brand new, you know, whatever new dealers have. So you're kind of getting, you know, when people talk about benchmarks, this is benchmarks. And and so, you know, to look at what's what average things are happening, you know, for the different numbers, it's like, OK, this is this should be my goal. How do I get it to here? How do I get it to, you know, you're saying average average. down payment so are you collecting um a thousand dollars are you collecting two thousand dollars and is it possible to get two thousand dollars and help with that you know decreasing your cash and deal it's and you know the the length of term the size of payment the all of those kind of things it's like this is it's really great information and it's something that I am really frankly, frankly, proud of you for, you know, making something that since we first met, since we first started this whole journey, that's like, I want to be able to get access to data that will help dealers. Cause you know, you had your own data, but you also knew that there's a, there's a lot more, the more data you collect, the stronger your numbers are. Sure. The more information you have, the more you can make a judgment. And I just want to put the information in front of dealers. One of the things I see is I feel like as a former dealer myself, I see that dealers aren't given enough credit generally for their... intellect and ability to make their own decisions I just all I'm trying to do is get information in front of them so they can make their own decisions about what works for them it's not so much about me saying to dealers you should do business exactly this way I just want to because that's the nature of buy here pay here dealers are all over the place in terms of how they want to do business and that's okay they could I just want them to have good information I just don't want them you know, flying by the seat of their pants because it's a, it's a dangerous space that we're in. There's a lot of the, the mistakes can be really expensive. And so what we're trying to do is get information in front of people so that they can make their own judgment. And so we'll continue to do that. Well, the one, we will continue to do that because you know, V8's not going away. It's just going to grow. And I have really enjoyed, I mean, okay. Plug for V8. Yeah. So that being a part of a small group of dealers and going over this kind of data every month, that these groups are, you know, they'll go over the data. If there's something that's really like sticking out, they'll have a conversation around that. and you know they'll and they also have each other's phone numbers and so they can call and talk to you know it doesn't have to be during that but the conversations that are happening in v8 groups right now are really rich conversations and it's and it's going beyond the numbers and it's it's you know it's that connect and compare so it's it's primary primarily connecting with other dealers and comparing and so when you when you throw something out on facebook you don't understand that dealer's operation. And you don't even know if you can fully trust what they're saying is happening. And so through this, it's really a great way because everything is verified. This is coming directly from the DMSs. This is just not someone's word or not someone's pat on their back. This is what the numbers really are. And it's something that I I'm excited about because as we share these on the morning show, more and more dealers are going to get really good, solid information. Yeah. And obviously you don't get the same like a dealer who's in one of that, those 20 groups. Let's take that one, that V8 group, the one that's in a V8 group like that. They can look at that chart inside their meeting and say, gee, dealer number one, why do you do such a long contract? So you get into the why. And on that same sheet of paper or the graphs that we present, they can see that dealer's got the lowest charge off rate. As an example, they may see that dealer's got the lowest charge off rate. So the other dealers may walk away saying, hmm, maybe I should look at that model. Or maybe the dealer that has the long thing, as dealers are asking him questions, he's like, second, I'm considering doing this differently now. Because you guys are all able to buy a car for less than I am. Does that make sense for me? So it's really quality conversations. It also goes into the why and it looks at the whole picture of the operation and we're only capturing 24 numbers and we're able to then show them sales, collections, portfolio performance and, and you know, repo losses and all this stuff. So now people can get a better sense of, yeah, just, it's like what we're talking about here with just deal structure. You don't know, you see these deal structure numbers, but you don't know, obviously those numbers vary a little bit within the group. You don't know which dealers are actually performing best overall. So I remember Brent Carmichael one time in one of our podcast conversations, he's like, what is the word performing mean? Like, you know, what, what would be somebody's version of performance might be different for somebody else. So, you know, you get into the whole profit versus cash flow thing and there's everything to kind of, but that's, that's why in our business it's so challenging because there's a lot of moving parts, a lot of elements to consider here. And, you know, we, we advocate for the long game. We advocate for success. For those of you who are on the fence or this is the first time you're hearing about V8, it's right now only $129 a month, which is nothing. And there's room. We have spaces with all different sizes of dealerships. When you said that we just opened up another group for the larger, the 500 to 2,000, You know, we, we open them up with four dealers and so there's spots there. We, you know, and we're, we're able to, to, uh, you know, if, if it's something that you think would be helpful, um, and it's just, it's money well spent and it's not a lot of money. I think just giving dealers a chance to get off the island and see how their folks are doing business, you know, some of them just kind of in their little... And the other thing, too, is that there's 30% plus of the dealers that are involved in V8 are also in a 20 group. Because it's a different conversation. It is. It's a different examination. So it's just a whole different structure and format. But yeah, I think what I would just say is that dealers will get a chance to see what's... what others are doing and get a better sense of what's happening, what's working. And like I said, we just, we really advocate always for the long game, playing the long game and making sure that we're thinking long-term success. And so we know in our business, it's not how much profit we see today. It's what we ultimately put in the bank. And so, you know, this is what we got to think about. Well, everybody, thank you for joining us on Monday. Thank you for indulging us with our camping photos. There you go. You will be getting more camping, not camping, well, maybe some camping photos. You'll be getting more insights to things, our takeaways that deal with the industry from our camping trip on Wednesday. Yeah. We're going to be talking about that. And it's going to be a really good, rich conversation. Oh, that's our Wednesday topic. That's our Wednesday topic. So that's a squiggly line topic. Mm-hmm. And so please join, join us on Wednesday or, you know, find us on the podcast stations. And again, thank you so much for joining us today. We really, really appreciate it.
