Wake up, Buy Here, Pay Here people. It's a beautiful day. Go grab yourself another cup of joe and say hello to Jim and Michelle Rhodes on the Buy Here, Pay Here morning show. Take it away, you two. Good morning. Happy Frozen Wednesday. Yeah. Across the U.S. I talked to a dealer by text this morning in Pennsylvania. They're frozen. I talked to three dealers yesterday in the southeast. They're all wearing heavy coats. How much was the one in Pennsylvania? Minus five. Minus five. I'm originally from Oklahoma. My mother reported minus two yesterday. We woke up to like eleven degrees here in Utah. So we're warm. It's just all across the country. It's a balmy eleven degrees. It was yesterday. Yeah, this is one of the dealers that Jim works with in V-Eight was saying, oh my gosh, yesterday was this. He lives in uh alabama alabama well actually the florida painting okay yeah and he was like snow day for the whole family we went out and we played and we played and we played and we played because it's like this is something so many people in the south have really especially children never seen sure yeah unless their parents drive somewhere to introduce them to snow this is so um it's it's yeah oh yeah imagine the kids having snow in their own backyard wow It's like, mom, can I make a snowman? I, you know, yeah, this, it's fantastic. All right. Do, is there anything that we have? Just V eight announcements. I mean, our V eight folks kind of know what that schedule is. And so we've got, we've got, yeah. Yeah. We've got a mastermind coming up though, that is accessible to our V eight and our V eight plus for just January, February. It's separating from just regular V eight home group and V eight plus and And this month, anyone in just V eight home group is going to have access to a mastermind. One of our dealers has put together a growth business plan for twenty twenty five. And dealers are going to be looking at that and asking questions. And and it's just it's going to it's going to be just a great conversation with a group of dealers talking about. All right. So the wise and what are you hoping to accomplish and the. And the I've tried this before and this is what didn't work. And this is what it's going to be a really great conversation. It's going to be I would even use the word pivotal for V.A. because it's it's going to a new level with our conversations and virtual gathering. And I just think people will see, oh, wow, this is what virtual meetings can look like. And it's going to be strong. Yeah, we calendared the next February, March, and April for V-Eight Plus meetings, and we've got some really good stuff coming up. Yeah, it's pretty darn exciting. And let's see, anything else? Let's see. We already have our Friday topic set. I don't have it in front of me, but do you remember what it is? Yeah. Yeah, no. You don't remember. I'm sorry. I have menopause brain, which means if something goes in, something has to go out. So I keep it all on paper. Yeah. And I don't have the paper in front of me. I remember now. I posted something on social media. It's lead management in closing. Oh. It's conversion. Really, it's about lead conversion. Okay. What percentage of leads are we converting? Which is something that's like... a huge conversation um a lot of people that I see that on social an awful awful awful lot and and we I was asking jim this morning on around that topic I'm like so what is the average um the average in v-eight the average and and he gave me the number and I was like are you serious um I I it's very very low and yeah so we're going to talk about all the stuff people talk about are they are they bad leads are they bogus leads are they you know why why do we have so many leads which is the golden question on that so yeah we'll be talking about that on friday so don't don't forget to join us and if you can't join us live it will be uploaded in the afternoon for um our syndicated podcast yeah um what else anything else okay let's bring in our guest um and let's see if he's wearing blue I just noticed we kind of he's gray so yeah you know good morning ken good morning michelle and jim glad to have you here um jim yeah glad to be here oh we are so grateful do you want to get a little low down on who ken is and how he kind of like is part of those people that you kind of know from social media like I've seen his name in the bhb success group and conversations and this and that in the past and then some months ago we put out a post saying hey we're looking for v-eight moderators uh so anybody who wants to step forward and uh and talk about uh starting to moderate some v-eight groups We would love to talk to you. When we met Ken, he's a guy who has buy here, pay here experience, retail, lease, service experience, all of it. So we're really fortunate to have somebody like him coming in, being able to contribute his expertise to V-Eight Groups. And then last night he was setting, sitting in one of our V eight groups. And after the thing I said, Hey, last minute thought, would you want to join our conversation tomorrow morning as a dealer now retiring? He's a retiring dealer. We'll call him and he can tell us, but he's he's kind of in the process of exiting the space slowly. And so, so anyway, we just today I thought, well, he's somebody who knows this segment. He, he, he talks the talk in terms of he, this white hat approach to customers and business. And he also walks the walk. I mean, he definitely is somebody who's done that. So, Ken, welcome. Glad to have you here. Thank you, Jim. That was a long introduction, but it was a good one. Yeah, I don't usually do that, but I think it's important for people to know who Ken is. So, Ken, I think for today, we just want to talk about this idea about who is this customer? There have been some things recently that have come up, and Michelle and I have touched on this kind of thread in the past, but I think today we have a chance to go a little deeper. Well, and we were talking before is that this question, for everything that we're building, in the White Hat Way track, this is a really foundational thing to understand and to, you know, have the same kind of philosophy and, you know, that this is who our customer base is. So we're just really grateful that you're here to talk to us a little bit about. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe you can start by giving us an overview. Like you've done this a long time. You've met a lot of customers. You've worked with collectors who are working with customers, you know, probably thousands over the years. So the question becomes kind of the first thing is what is your general view of who this customer is? Like what's the profile of the customer that we typically meet in the buyer payer space? Yeah. So, so typically a buyer payer customer is someone who, and obviously they've got you know less than perfect credit you know they've gone through a crisis in their life or they're actually in a crisis you know and so so so they've got some blemishes on the credit and you know maybe they've made some poor decisions or poor choices in the past uh or their circumstances have you know are in a in a situation where they can't get conventional financing right so so they're out looking for you know a means of transportation so that they can do the things that they need to do in their life whether it's going to doctor visits work school you know whatever it is that's it's typically somebody with bad credit you know so that's yep yeah and so as far as the reasons that folks find themselves in a tough credit situation can vary I think what I'm mostly drilling in on as we approach this you know It's the lens. We talk about, Michelle and I use the word lens, like what lens do we see the customer through? And I think, you know, in our conversation last night, the VA meeting, it comes around for dealers, like when you're interviewing people for sales team, collections team, like as you're bringing people onto your team, you know, it's helpful to try to identify that, like, what is the lens that this person that we hire, how do they view the customer that we will be serving and working with every day? And so it's just kind of a reality of that. And I think one of the things, Ken, you've seen it, I'm sure, is that there seems to be a a pretty clear line between those dealers who recognize as customers in a difficult spot. There are going to be dealers who use that position to take advantage and other dealers who kind of take the approach that the longer game approach that we talked about in white hat way. And they're going to, have a chance to be more successful long term. So that's the part I really wanted to focus on today. And thinking about dealers that are brand new to the space, what do they not recognize? They think, oh, we're going to finance customers here. We're going to make a lot of markup and a lot of APR. We're going to get rich, right? And then they step in there and realize, oh, man, there's a lot to learn about who this customer is and how I can begin to have success with my portfolio. So that's the part. You might talk about that part of what you've seen about how dealers approach it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, so, you know, I think that, you know, I talk to a lot of dealers, too. And I think that those that are coming into this space, they are thinking that these customers probably have good credit like them. You know, so they're coming in, they're thinking, OK, I'm going to do a deal for this customer, a buy here, pay here deal for this customer. And I'm going to expect them to make their payment early or on time every single week or month. And they're never going to make a mistake. They're never going to need any help. And if they do, they better fix it themselves if the car breaks down. And I expect them to call me if they got issues or they can't make their payment. So I think that that's kind of what I hear a lot, that dealers think that that should happen, what the customer should do. And that's not what typically happens. Yeah. And, you know, in our group last night, these are dealers that are pretty well established, pretty successful, you know, five hundred two thousand count portfolios, a lot of cash flow and a lot of history with accounts. And so when I said the thing about, you know, this customer in the buy here, pay here segment, sometimes we just have to accept that they require a degree of handholding. All the dealers, right? All the dealers in this virtual format are like, yeah, you're right. So it's like, that's something that we, those of us who see success, we see that that can sometimes be a separator is recognizing that the customers can require some support. Why? Well, because maybe they're a victim of an education system that never really taught them financing, whether it be at home or in the school system. Yeah. So they just, they just don't have the same knowledge about how to manage accounts and credit that, Some others have. That would be one example. Others maybe know how, but they fell into a really difficult financial situation. It might be a health matter. It could be any number of things. I think what I'm trying to get to is it's the lens that we have that when we look at that customer, do we view them as being permanently downtrodden and And are they, you know, the, some of my phrasing in the, some of the pure lab written is like the disadvantaged customer. Do we view them as they're in that place? They're going to be in that place. That's, that's who they'll always be. Or do we view them as being in a temporary situation? And we are part of a solution to help them, you know, work through it. I can say, Ken, in my experience, both as a dealer and a coach working with lots of dealers over the years, like, there's a percentage of the customers who don't necessarily improve their credit. We have dealers who've had decades, you know, multiple generations of families in their customer base and the customers are perfectly happy to do business there. They pay a higher interest rate, they have a good experience and they continue. And so some may never improve their credit circumstances. They may never qualify for the, you know, the better credit loans. And, So I think the question is, how do we support them? I mean, if they're going to be in that situation and then from a pure business profit standpoint, Ken, how do we as a dealer approach that whole situation from a culture standpoint, our team and our approach to business and philosophy to give us a chance to be successful? So thinking about the sales side first, like if you're hiring salespeople, what would you be telling them to understand about the customer they're going to meet? You know, I think that I think you're right. You know, I think that it really starts with with us as dealers and our organization. And if we if we as the manager or the dealer or the leader of an organization view the customer a certain way then that kind of trickled down into our team absolutely you know so so for me you know I I you know I view our customers as you know as as regular human beings have gone through a crisis or that's going through a crisis just like we all have gone through crisis in our life you know and that we need to number one show respect and and show um compassion and understanding and and look at how can we empower as a dealer, how can we empower our team and also so that they can empower our customers. Because really it starts with us and it starts with our mindset, our mindset of positivity and success and how do we encourage. and really serve this community. Because if you go into buy here, pay here, I mean, it's really, I mean, you've got to, I mean, you're going to have to do some work. Yeah. And it's not like you're dealing with an eight hundred credit score customer and, you know, but these are people that, you know, are needing some kind of help and support. And your team's got to understand that. Your salesperson's got to understand that. You know that, you know, we're here to serve them and we're here to help them and in whatever capacity we can, instead of seeing them as just another number or or somebody that, or an ATM machine that if they pay, then we're gonna make money. Yeah, the transactional versus the relational. Exactly, yeah, exactly. Rudy Enriquez, I think it's Rudy E. I'd say you need to have a shepherd's mindset. That's right. So, you know, I was just thinking as you were kind of talking about that, that it's, you don't, if your kids are being difficult, You don't repo or you don't kick them out. You don't fire them. It's like if we have more of the mentality that you're part of the family. I kind of get tired of like join the family. But it's not just a platitude. It's not just something you say, but it's like you are part of our organization. You are like family. And so how do we help? How do we and and developing how did you in your dealership you know that's it's it's great to say give them tools and what are specific things that you um had in your dealership that were like here's some tools that I gave my my team that they could use yeah yeah so so one of the things that that I saw that was was a constant with our customers was that they were dealing with either some kind of something at home, you know, whether it's a, you know, they ended up having some kind of argument in their relationship, they had to move out or, you know, or they're dealing with some kind of mental stress or something and so what I did was I I gathered up some resources from the from from my area with like you know basically um places that they can go for transitional living places that can support them with uh addiction and you know places that can help them with uh you know utility bills or food or you know whatever and so we put together this packet that I gave to all of my collectors and whenever they heard from a customer that, hey, I'm struggling with this, or this is what's happening in my life. We say, oh, okay, great. Let me send you over this packet of information. I recommend reaching out to CCM or reaching out to this organization over here, and they can support you and help you. And what I found was that in doing that, the customer not only saw us as where they make their car payment, but also someone that they can rely on, they can trust, and that we're not going to be there to judge them that, hey, you're going through this because you're a horrible person. It's not that. And so it's really helped my collectors and my team be able to show love and compassion towards our customers. It's really helped them. And I'm pretty proud of that. Yeah, it should be. I think the other thing that I am recognizing is think about what that feels like to the collector that works for you and your team. Like when they have those resources and we share it freely, like it just, to me, what it says in very clear terms is that Ken, as the dealer principal and the founder owner of this business, from the very top of our company he really has a desire to support and help people so there's other ways more tangible ways right and so we start to talk about reinsurance whether it's warranties or service contracts or just different ways to support the customer but not all of it's about the car that's just the collateral there's all other kinds of ways that the that the customer requires some help and so it's just a matter of kind of being prepared to roll up our sleeves a little bit Yeah. Rudy, another comment from him is that he's argue I would argue that more gross, the more gross you put in a deal, the more flexibility you have and you have the ability to help customers. So, you know, I follow the logic. I think you've got there's some truth to what he's saying. I think you just want to be careful about that. There's a give back mentality. We urge a give back mentality around APR. Like in other words, we'll urge dealers when they're new to set your APR a little high, you know, not necessarily push it to the state cap, you know, but set it on the higher side, round it up a few points, push what you were thinking, and then be prepared to use those extra earnings to give back to your entire portfolio. Do all the things that you're talking about. and the things that I can do to give back. And so I think what Rudy's really talking about there is the same thing. I just think that's a kind of a can of worms that we probably should save for another conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted to share another one. This is from Crystal Guayo. We are definitely part of the solution to help them get back up. The way to do so is offering continuous financial education. Most consumers do not improve credit, not because they don't want to, but because they lack the knowledge of how to manage revolving credit. It's not what we say, it's how we say it that will allow us to build that solid relationship. We're looking for which will then make it easier for the collection site. Karen piped in and just said your idea about, you know, we've got this thing that we give. What a fantastic way to help others. Yeah. And I think it's wonderful. And I think Crystal's spot on about the financial education. We know that financial literacy is a thing, right? Anything we can do to help them. But then I also think, Ken, about those situations that, again, are not, it's not a money management thing. It's not even, sometimes it's not a financial literacy thing. It It might not even be an income thing, but it's a problem that the customer's faced with. One of the things I've always said about the customer that we serve, and I mean this with the utmost respect for every one of them, they're human beings like you and me, but it's like they often don't know how to help themselves. They don't. They're faced with a problem. And to you and I, it's a problem we see all the time and we know solutions, but they don't necessarily know how to solve this particular problem, whether it's a car that's not running and it's just out of warranty or, you know, you could go on and on. We spend all day talking about all the scenarios that come up for a buyer. I'm basically saying when the customer faces those roadblocks, it's like first, maybe it's new to them and maybe they've never experienced it. They certainly may not have experienced it with you. They may have had it with another dealer. It was an awful experience, right? But now this first time they've really faced it with you and your company. So the question becomes, how do we respond? In this case, we're talking more about the collection side, but I think it's, it's it's a reflection of how do we ultimately have success and I didn't pull it up michelle but you remember way back um probably in some of our early you know fifty episodes we featured um a post from social media that went out from a dealer that we know very well they've been in business thirty plus years they do a lot of repeat and referral business and their collector posted something that basically said you know I find that with our customers sometimes I am helping them I'll sit with them and help them figure out where to get their car insurance yeah and then they'll come in and sit down at her desk and she will help them fill out the forms for their heat whatever thing or she'll you know it's because because that yeah may I yeah please thank you um that is uh you know, we can we can give them like, go here, go here, go here, go here. And that is amazing. It just reminds me of Candace Price in Nebraska, who's, you know, honorary white highway dealer, all of that, that that's it's like they're about solutions. If they say, I can't do this because of this, even in the sales desk, I can't do this because of this, that it's like, let me help you with that before we do this. Let me help. And and that that that little extra of a lot of people, if you're not financially literate, that when you put a big application in front of you too, it just, their brain goes, shuts off. It's like, this is too hard. This is too hard. And so sometimes that support may spill into, you know, if just come, let's, let's figure this out together. And, and, and that imagine the amount of relationship threads you create when you do something like that, that it's like, Oh my gosh. And that was what, that's what this dealer's collection manager was like. She's like, they'll, they'll come in on a, on a payday and they'll drop off their favorite recipe for this because we're friends. Yeah. But yeah. And so let me just say, Ken, like if I follow the thread that happened in our V eight meeting last night, it's like, Dealers are having this conversation. What really brought it about is what do you guys think about auto pay or convenience fees? And should I chat on the phone when somebody calls in with a payment? Should I talk to him or should I just keep it short? And obviously what you conclude in that is there's a balance between the efficiency of our time, right? That we're going to be super efficient with our time. Auto pay works great. that we get a direct thing and the customer can pay online. And what that sounds like to me is the customer has a relationship with our bank account, not with us. And so now the question becomes, if I'm a collector and I invest a few minutes on the phone, listening to somebody tell their story and kind of working through whatever's going on, a couple of things that happen. One, I'm able to log that, kind of know what's happening in the customer's world so that if there's a difficulty next month, I know what's going on in their world. But also I'm thinking about how do I, The time that I invest there is, to me, yeah, is it inefficient with my time today? Can I now speak to fewer customers? Do I now need another collector on the team? Maybe. But that investment, what does that translate into repeat and referral business? I mean, it's stuff that's hard to measure, but I think what we're looking forward to doing in the White Hat way is being able to start to measure those very things to say, these are the things that when we can really think long term and we can really support this customer for success and we can really move our repo rates, we can reduce our repos and we can, you know, all these kind of things that are real math. that really contribute to success, then this is the part that there's a lot of intangibles here that we're talking about. But I think going back to where we started about who the customer is, I think it's just important to, first of all, see them at the lens. If we just bring an idea that this is a fellow human being who's in a difficult spot, And most people, it also came up last night when I do trainings, Ken, I'll often draw a pie chart on the wall. And when I'm working with somebody new, I say, you can expect to find a small sliver of customers are troublemakers. The same phrase that was used last night. Every dealer has them. Right? They're out to take advantage. Obviously, our underwriting process is we're trying to avoid doing business with those folks, but it still happens. And so you just try to bring those relationships to an end as quickly as you can and get away from that. And then there's this larger sliver that might be thirty, forty percent that is what I call high maintenance. They just require a lot of handholding. They they they struggle financially and they struggle to figure their own problems out. So they require a good deal of handholding and then the rest are no problem at all. We almost never see them unless there's a problem. And and so we're happy to support them, too. Part of the work that Michelle and I are doing with White Hat Way is that we're really working to try to create, help dealers create connection. So that's about all this stuff about engagement. How do you keep... an ongoing relationship with a customer so that you know we talk about it you can take this outside of the buy here pay your business it's like what we call relationship equity when we build some equity with this customer then now it's our hope that when there's a setback they'll talk to us they trust us they know we have their interest in mind and now our ability to be able to sit with them or talk to them on a phone facetime virtual however we talk to them like we can now have a chance to solve whatever the problem is because they're not afraid of us They know we're on their side. And so this is why it's an important thing for us to kind of sort out as dealers. But to do that, if you're a brand new dealer, you first have to understand when you step into this business, if you're thinking the customer's gonna pay and then you're just gonna, if they don't pay, you're gonna enact some, punitive measures only, then just, you can expect to have a lot of cars repos in the back row curing out, right? And just understand that's probably gonna be the outcome if we don't have support solutions. Cause this customer, in my experience, part of what causes them to fall into this credit segment often is they're just, they're not real good. They don't have a lot of experience at managing their money and their financial affairs. And so they will, if we don't, if we're not prepared to support them, then we should probably be prepared to have a lot of repos. Do you agree? You know, I totally agree. And like I was saying earlier, you know, we as the dealer or a manager can understand that. But it's important that we hire a team and train our team members to think the same way. Like what you were talking about, the three different slivers of our customer type. A lot of times what I've seen in the past in my business is that if I don't do the right training or enough training, my collectors seem to think that everybody has to be a great paying customer or else this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to repo you. We've got to train them that, hey, there's three sides to this pie. Like what you said, you've got the easy ones that they work with, you've got the not so good customers, and then you've got some that you've got to hold hand. Helping our team members understand that any one of these customers sometimes can fall into any one of those categories at any time. It's okay. It's normal. It's part of the business. And still, either way, we're still there to serve them. Yeah. Well, that's how your interest rate and those kind of things, it's baked in because you know that you're going to have some, you're going to have these that don't finish the cycle of their loan. But I like that. It's like letting your team know that this is the industry that we're in. And I see sometimes dealers and I hear it's like, I'm tired. I'm tired of getting taken advantage of. I'm tired. And it's like, what are you focusing on? When you're like, I'm so tired of this rat race and that there's so many screwy, rotten customers out there and all that. And it's like, what are you focusing on? Are you focusing on that sliver? Are you focusing on how we're able to help this other thirty percent? Are you focusing on this is the successful side? I mean, it's like, are you focusing on the negatives? Are you focusing on the positives? And how is that affecting your team as you go down this rabbit hole? And I... We were talking earlier that we see stuff on social media where it's just like painting our customers in this really, really, really just awful negative light. And it's like... People don't know better. They don't have the resources that those that are passing judgment on them do. There's so much attached to that that it's just like, let's be compassionate. Well, you use the example of our kids. The reality is, even our kids, they will make mistakes. And so I think it's really a question of how do we respond to that and how do we approach it? And there will still be... in that segment about if we're going to respond negatively, it's kind of that thing about the way we view the customer and how do we how do we want to react? And that is and plus it's dealing with exceptions rather than rules. That's not the typical customer, right? Can our typical customer is not you know, the troublemaker. They're not out to take advantage. Are there a few that are irresponsible? Sure. We have to work with them and help them kind of work through some stuff and get caught up. And, you know, it's part of it. I just, my feeling is we talk through these things about how much time should I spend? I think we can be guilty of falling into a place where we say, you know, if that collector spends an extra five minutes on the phone with this, you know, with thirty percent of our customers, that's not good use of our time, the cost of our time. But I think of it as, look, maybe let's think about it as an investment, not a direct cost. And I think the phrase I used last night is kind of a necessary cost of business if we really want to hear our customers out. And part of the human thing is just let people feel heard. You know, it's not that we have to do something immediately to solve the problem that they describe, but just let them let them explain what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. You know, is your experience, Ben, when people are hit a hard, hard time? You know, we've you talked about and George actually asked, describe the the is being what do you describe as being a resource? And so, Ken, earlier, you just kind of listed this list of things that you have with your your collectors have. Like, are you having a problem with this and that there are resources, community resources? Yeah. to be able to help with that. But do you find it's how how were you able? OK, when a customer is having a setback or I mean, you know, whatever it is, they a lot of times go radio silent. Yes. Right. And I mean, they go radio silent. Why? Why are you going radio silent? I believe it starts when that happens. You know, it's a couple of things. It's it's either fear, shame or blame. You know, and so it's yeah, it's one of those three things, all three of them. Right. Because because they're afraid of losing their car. They're afraid of telling you what's what's going on in their life. They may have some shame about it. I'm a horrible person, you know, or they may have some blame that, you know, Blaming it on the dealer or, you know, their circumstances or, you know, the weather or whatever it is. So all those things are happening. And it kind of shuts them down because like what you were talking about earlier is that when people go through a crisis, right, when they're in a crisis, and a crisis to them could be something totally different for us that we're thinking it's not a crisis for us, but to them it's a crisis. And when you're in a crisis, you can't see beyond what's right in front of you. Amen, brother. And it leaves them, you know, like, I don't know what to do. I can't do anything. And it leaves them feeling stuck. You know, and so so we as a as a, you know, organization, we've got to understand that. OK, so if they're not communicating this, something's happening, you know, and how can we support them? How can we encourage them? And that's why I talk a lot with my team about empowering my customers, empowering and not just doing things for them, but empowering them so that they can. take these particular actions or do certain things. And that's why we offer those resources so that they can go out there and make the calls and ask for help and, you know, stuff like that. So that, you know, once they learn to do that, you know, and be resourceful, because the biggest thing isn't that, you know, that, that, you know, we have to have money or we have to have all these things. It's, it's the biggest thing is being resourceful, you know, and, and, And that's what our customers struggle with is where do I begin? Where do I get these resources from? And that's why the list that I was talking about earlier is not your typical list of stuff. It's the stuff that will help them mentally, helps them with the stuff that they're dealing with in their life, and not just with financial support, but with other things. And that's why it's a little bit, We've got to train our team members to understand that. So I would just say, Michelle, that as a former dealer myself and working with a lot of really gifted managers over the years, I can say, Ken, that if I, in addition to that list of local resources that you described, if I have in my head all these different ways that I know I can help the customer, And it might be loans to them. It might be saving money on parts. It might be, you know, it could be on and on and on. I got a whole tool belt full of ways that I can help a customer. But I kind of always harken back to the thing about there was a dealer that I, a manager rather, that I remember working with in Iowa years ago. And he used to use the phrase, he said, if you'll come and sit in that chair, I'll see what I can do to help you, you know? And then I used to adopt the phrasing at closing and that trained our people to kind of use the phrase like, there's not going to be anything that comes up in the time that you have this car finance with us that we can't figure out together if you'll just sit and work with us talk to us so same kind of thing whether it's sit in the chair hop on a facetime it's like there's not going to be anything come up that we can't work through together so I'm trying to dispel the fear part that you're talking about and but I also think the relationship equity is huge and I think we can establish some of that on the sales side we can make that a separate topic michelle because I think there are times that you can come back and There are ways that we can have a conversation as opposed to having a credit app come in, we score it, we approve it. The customer comes in, they barely spend, you know, thirty, forty five minutes signing the stuff and off they go. We don't we don't really get to know them and they didn't get to know us and how we do business. Right. So the question is, how do we kind of cover that? And there are some some very specific things that can be done in the sales process and more specifically in the approval and closing process. And so I think that's something we can bring back in terms of how to establish some degree of relationship equity. Ways to establish trust in the sales process? Well, just in us as a company. It's like in the process, we can establish some level of trust. trust and there's some very specific things it's like a whole separate conversation but yeah but I do think that that serves us well in the collection side and before we wrap up I got some stuff I prepared it's like a seven point thing this was for an article and I'll just give the high points quickly and we can expand on these later but I put together seven points ken that were sort of basis of an article of how to have success in collections and so these are the seven c's that I put together so the first c is is compassion like how do we um do we bring compassion to our collection approach? Or are we, when a customer's past due and they're scared, like you just talked about, do we call them and say, I need your payment by six o'clock Friday or else? Is that the tone of the thing? Or are we saying, hey, you know, that if something has happened and you've hit a roadblock, I know it can be really scary to talk to us about this and recognize and verbalize that you may be feeling scared. You may be feeling powerless. Or you may be feeling... What a great thing for a collector making a phone call is to say something that we understand that these are things that you might be feeling this or you might be feeling this. To Crystal Guile's point, it's not just what you say, it's how you say it. It's a little bit of tone of voice. It's not just... It's not just the actual language, but the tone of voice that we choose is going to illustrate, you know, should you be scared to talk to me? Do I want to return your phone call? Or, you know, if you're calling me, Ken, do I want to return your phone call? You sound like you're angry. You know, I don't know if I want to talk to you today. Right? So it's like tone of voice matters. And so I think if we bring a compassionate approach to the, if we're leaving a voice message, does it sound like we want to try to work something out? Or does it sound like we are demanding a car payment? Yeah. And so I think this is part of it. The next one would be connection. And Michelle and I talk a lot about engagement. I think if you can stay connected and maintain some sort of relationship, because they need to get to know us. It's also hard to have a conversation with someone that's hit a roadblock that you've never had a conversation with before. True. I think when you face a crisis, it's better if you've already had some degree of relationship so they can feel comfortable talking to you, right? And we can think about teenagers. I mean, the same thing with your kids. Yeah. do they really trust is there a real connection and then cooperation is another one back to all the stuff all the different tools and ways to cooperate and help and bend and be flexible I've always talked about a bend without breaking approach to collections and and be flexible just part of what I think helps us to have success next one be communication which is also part of the um you know the connection piece I think it goes both ways I think we need to you know have an outreach of communication that it's not just hey your car payment's due We need to be better and this is where we can be better. Another one is just consistency. If they want to trust us and feel comfortable doing business with us and referring friends and family, I think we need to show consistency that we care. We show we care every day. We bring the same attitude to customer relations and we treat everybody with dignity and respect. We got to be consistent in that. Next one is clarity. When we can have clarity around the thing, especially. Understandings and things like that. Yeah. And where this comes into mind for me is like it's common for customers to come and do business with us. And so imagine, Ken, at your dealership, you're meeting a customer today for the first time. Well, they may have done credit business in the past. Maybe I'm in a buy here, pay here dealership near you. but the experience with them may have been very different than it's going to be with you so I think this is our opportunity to create tremendous clarity as the customer steps in what to expect yeah and that's going to help them to be successful that's going to help us to have a better relationship along the way and so clarity is a big and then the last one for me is convenience let's just make it easy for the customer to pay like they have enough yeah that's that's something that is just like really you're going to make it hard yeah and I have that you know and we're you know not that michelle and I are the typical customer here but we're human beings navigating life like everybody else and some of the stuff around managing utilities can be so frustrating they just make it so difficult you know what a beautiful role in a dealership we've we've talked about this before um how many of our dealerships have a customer advocate and their team that is there to help, like really with those, those, like we're having a, come in and talk to our customer advocate. They can, they can walk you through all the stuff or, yeah, it's just, and someone that they're introduced to at closing, this is, this is your advocate. If you've got a problem and you need help with this or with this or with this, they're, they're the person to call. And so they're not a collector because they don't, like, you know, a lot of our customers, she's like, it's a collector. It's, but this is, this is Amy. I'm your customer advocate. And, you know, I know the dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, whatever. Yeah. Totally. And they don't really talk about car payments unless the customer asks. So yeah, there's some stuff. That's new stuff. That's new territory for us. But yeah. I mean, something we started advising dealers do. Some of them implemented it with some success. And so it's something that we just are recognizing a need for there to be somebody that the customer can feel comfortable talking to and who's on their side. And at the end, we are. If we can't find solutions for the customer, then it can end badly for us. And so we have a financial interest in supporting the customer and helping them to be successful. But I think the first part of this is really just What is our lens? What do we think about the customer that we're going to work with every day? I wanted to share one more thing from George because I just really appreciate George Spatz in his perspective. He's like, great point about what may be a crisis for them may not be one for us. The difference is often the difference of perception rather than perspective. The latter is looking at something from their point of view. So I love that when you brought in a crisis. A crisis happens and it may be my boyfriend just came back and he beats me up. And so I shut down and I can't function. I mean, it can be something as... It can also be something small. It can be, yeah, something small. I can't access my bank account or whatever. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's any number of things. And so if we just approach our customers with compassion and empathy as much as we can and not... Try to look at it from their perspective, but not from our perception. And I look at that perception. What's your story? What are your filters when you're looking at someone else? What are your beliefs that are interfering with connecting with the person that you're sitting across the table from? Yeah. yeah and so um you know we've seen that happens that people who work in collections they can get a little bit jaded right frustrated especially when they take it um too personally and it can be it's a difficult job anyway right and you're even if you're just working with people and dealing with difficult stuff it's a difficult job no doubt uh I think in order for us to have people stay on in a collection role I think our our if we kind of start with philosophy here I think and go back to the culture for you as a dealer principles like when you start with philosophy and you build all your policies procedures around a certain philosophy and that has and it ties a lot to the things we're talking about here is our philosophy and approach to the customer that we serve and then we write our policies and procedures accordingly we hire as well as we can according to that culture and philosophy then you know I I always say when we hire people my hope is that we're going to hire people we can't prepare them for every single scenario they're going to face, like what the situation is going to be on the phone when the next collection call comes in. We can't prepare them for every single scenario. But when we can have broad policies and we can give gifted people the ability to solve problems and to first listen, what we talked about in our meeting last night, I can't begin to solve the problem as a collector until I can listen, make sure I fully understand what's going on. So now it's back to the thing about it may not be the most – efficient use of my time in terms of dollars and cents cost, but certainly it's effective potentially in terms of what it can yield for us. If you save a contract, is it worth the extra twenty minutes? Oh, yeah. How much time do you invest in selling that car if you repo the car and then you have to spend money? Who cares if they're spending a half an hour with one person? That may save a contract. It's philosophy and attitude. A repo costs thousands of dollars. For sure. Talk to them for a week. It's still going to save us money. I wanted to say something. Michelle, you were talking about earlier that you know, sometimes, you know, what we do in working with these customers, it can be draining, you know, we can be left at the end of the day or at the end of the week, or our collectors would be left with feeling exhausted and drained. And, and one of the things that, that, that I've done and I've implemented into our SOPs is that, you know, is to fill our cups and fill our team's cup, you know, because when, when we're pouring out into these customers all the time, it can be draining. So we've got to fill our own cups constantly. One of the things I talk about is that we need to fill our cups so much that we're overflowing onto a saucer and we're letting our customers drink from the saucer instead of our cup so that we're not feeling so drained all the time. Well, how do we fill our cups? Well, one of the things that I encourage is, you know, is, is, you know, meditating or reading, you know, or, you know, you know, gratitude, you know, gratitude thoughts, you know, thinking about the things you can be grateful for every morning. And so, you know, we've got, we've got to pour into ourselves and fill our own cup, you know, so that at the end of the day, we're not feeling so tired or exhausted because. Yeah. You know, that, I mean, it can be, you know, an exhausting job. I would, I have to add something. I'm sorry, honey. I have something to add too. Yeah, okay. But you go for it. That as a dealer, and, you know, we know the stress that our collectors go through. You know, when you talk about filling your cup, I, you know, personal experience, it is so important that we keep our cup full. And sometimes that's something as much as like a massage, right? Oh, yeah. Going and getting a massage. And so, you know, what kind I mean, how much would that cost a dealer to say, you know what, we're going to treat you guys to just go. This is who we've we've contracted with make an appointment, go and get a massage like after a really hard day or whatever. It's just like, go, go, go fill your cup, go fill your cup. I thought when Ken started in that, he was talking about, you know, he measured his collection room for a hot tub to see if they could put a hot tub. Well, I mean, Rudy is like, we have a, we have a, ball pit like Google. Oh, nice. Yeah. No, not we have a ball pit like Google play. I mean, playing is also a way of filling your cup and when you're playing together. All right. We should wrap up. What else? Yeah. Oh, such a great conversation. It was great. Thank you. Thank you. I hope we can have you back again. Oh, yeah. Looking forward to it. Awesome. Excellent. All right. I'm going to put you backstage and if you'll stick around for just a second so we can say a proper goodbye after we're done. And then, yeah. Thank you. okay wow that was we just don't get a chance often enough to get that deep into the stuff but I think for dealers that are new it's important for them to hear that and I used to say general appreciate this I used to say dealers and working with them that if you could go sit in a dealership if you could go to tommy brandis dealership just sit in the corner just just sit in one of the chairs in the lobby for three hours and just listen to the conversations on the phone And at the cashier window, which is not as big a thing as it once was, but the actual conversations with customers, if you could listen to that for a few hours, you'd get a much better feel for what it's going to be like. That's actually, yeah, that's one of the things that we have with new dealers coming in. It's like they've got a dealer in the area that's good and go and sit with their collectors on a Friday. That'll give you a really good idea about what to expect and how a good collector will take care of that. And then we'll talk on Saturday and see if you still want to be in this business. Exactly. Hey, everybody, thanks so much for joining us. We just really appreciate you giving the time, and sometimes we go a bit over thirty minutes, but hey, great content, great comments today. We really appreciate it. Again, Ken, thanks so much for joining us. Have a great day, and we will see you guys on Friday.
