Wake up, Buy Here, Pay Here people. It's a beautiful day. Go grab yourself another cup of Joe and say hello to Jim and Michelle Rhodes on the Buy Here, Pay Here Morning Show. Take it away, you two. Hey, good morning, everybody. Hey, good morning, friends. Happy Wednesday. Happy to be joining you from the studio in Ogden, Utah. Yep. And we have a guest standing by. We'll get to that in just a moment. I don't have any real announcements. We have not decided on our topic for Friday. We do have a VAW event tomorrow. So we've got, I'm not VAW, VA plus event. So I've got VAW on my mind because that's what Ken Yang is here to join us. This is something we've been talking about for a while doing is having, because V eight is actually part of the white hat way. it's under the umbrella of white hat way that that's right and now that we have a our first graduating class of of um dealers and vendors who are now white hat white hat certified that we um we thought it would be a great time to really start having layering in the conversation of white hat way around uh v-eight and straight line topics yeah so shall we bring ken in Absolutely. Happy to introduce again. Ken's got his great background, which I just love. Got that going on. So Ken, welcome. So those who didn't catch the time, Ken's been on with us before. So Ken Yang is a retiring dealer, as I call him, and a moderator in waiting. He started to kind of moderate some groups with us in VH. So many of the dealers have met Ken and recognize his experience as a retiring dealer with experience and buy here, pay here, lease here, pay here, reinsurance. I mean, lots of the different aspects of this business have been in business for many years. And so we're thrilled to have him be among the first white hat certified members and especially a white hat certified coach. Yeah. So Ken's, um, uh, how Ken kind of intersects with, with us is that he was one of the first people that raised their hand when we were looking for moderators for V eight and got to know him. And, um, feel really fortunate to have somebody with Ken's background joining us in that. So can I ask you, first thing I'd like to hear from you, like your, your takeaways from the certification course, I mean, what did you, what did you get from that? You know, you know, the, the course was great, you know, thank you for having me on today. You know, I'm, I'm really honored to be, be here with you guys and, and to be on this journey with you. And, you know, I would say the biggest takeaway that I got from the course the other day was that, you know, White Hat Way is not a philosophy, right? It's a way of life that's like deeply rooted in honor and trust and service to others. And I heard that from Michelle and I was like, man, that's so amazing. you know, and, and originally I thought it was like, you know, it might be like a philosophy or, you know, whatever, but I was like, you know, it's, it's not that at all. It's, it's, it's really, you know, a way of life of, you know, doing things and serving others, you know? That's good. I love it. Yeah, it is. It's a way of life, which obviously when we show up and have a certain way of life, then that's naturally going to carry into our business, right. And the way that we would treat others in our business. So, Yeah, I'm glad to hear you say that. We feel like that's part of what we talk about in that session. And we said, you know, when we invite people into the room, part of the idea with that certification course is to have the opportunity to talk about more than buy here, pay here, right? More than the day-to-day matters of pricing cars and selling cars and all this stuff that happens in a buy here, pay here, lease here, pay here operation. So, yeah, I'm glad you were able to be a part of it. And I look forward to, as we step into this V-A-W track, just kind of help folks understand what that's about. You know, we have our V eight dealer groups that we kicked off last year in twenty twenty four. And so that platform is where you and I meet dealers and work with dealers all the time. And so the the premise behind our V eight W, first of all, I got to stop and recognize our founding sponsors. Our founding sponsors for White Hat Way have been with us, you know, for some time now, started in twenty twenty three. And they have supported this mission, which White Hat Way is really the organization and the mission that created VA as a way to be able to deliver solutions to dealers, right? We're just creating a peer group platform. And so that's part of what happens there. Now, by bringing the white hat way track to that, we get a chance to basically you and I, as a certified coach, Ken, this is the part that I look forward to working with you. You and I will host that series and we will, And it'll be an ongoing thing, but you and I will arrange to record on certain subjects. Like, for example, among the things that I had written would be things like, how does a white hat dealer advertise? How does a white hat? So that would be subject one. It would be the subject of a single session. You and I would host that. We may bring specialists. You know, another quick mention, and I didn't go and say the names, but for those who don't know, our founding sponsors at White Hat Way are LHBH Capital and Dealer Re, the reinsurance folks, and then Pastime, the GPS people. So it's their support that allows us to do a lot of the things that are kind of our mission driven effort. And now you're just kind of seeing the latest one. So again, can the platform will basically be you and I will host, we may or may not have guests and we will record those. Once that's recorded and edited, it'll kind of be available as a live reaction sort of event in a V-A-W track. So we will schedule that and V-A-W dealers will be invited and be able to be part of that conversation where we react to the content that has been recorded and we'll talk through it and just discuss it in that way. And then once that's been hosted in the V-A-W track, then eventually it'll be available to anyone, anywhere through YouTube and some other platforms. But we want to just host it uh, through our, our tracks at, at, uh, that way away and, and especially on our V eight track. So, so your thoughts about that? Yeah, I think that's, um, you know, I think that would be, you know, so great to provide a ton of value for, you know, for dealers that are, you know, looking, um, you know, to, to grow and looking to, you know, do business in, in, in a way that really, you know, serves others. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so that's part of what we look forward to being able to do with you is to have these conversations and help folks think about, you know, how would a white hat dealer do this? And for me, that's really, it's a lot as you heard us talk about in certification course, it's really about the long game, right? It's about thinking about tomorrow and next year and ten years from now as we make business decisions. And as you know, a lot of that for me ends up being asking dealers to think about getting comfortable with the idea of making decisions kind of through their heart obviously decisions are mostly made in our head but when we leave our heart out of the decision making process it sometimes causes us to make decisions that are a little more short-sighted you know so this is kind of where I'm coming from on that so so go ahead I was, you know, you mentioned around the service and I think that's one of the pieces that we did during the certification was on trust deposits on your trust bank. And, you know, this is something that we, we talked to a lot of the dealers that we work with about, you know, when a hard conversation needs to happen, what are you drawing upon as equity for that conversation to happen in a way that it's not, in conflict. It's not in, in, you know, as adversaries that it's, it's one where I trust you, you trust me, how do we move forward through this thing? And, you know, I remember when we when we did the certification, we talked about a lot of different companies that have really, it's that that level of trust that they, they give and they and they, they create through through going above and beyond and being transparent and all of those things. And we use the example of Southwest Airlines as a really great example of, you know, their trust bank with their consumers was strong enough that the major, major hiccup could be, you know, they were transparent. This is something that's happened. We're getting, we're getting it fixed, but they had a lot in the bank. So they didn't lose customers in the process. And which, you know, this is this is that's two for white hat way. That's business. One on one is how do you create an atmosphere where you can have the hard conversations and it's not adversarial or that you can step in together to serve others or serve each other and, you know, be able to create those common commonalities, those best The humor that Southwest has when they're doing their thing, those are trust deposits. They make it fun. They're making the experience something that it's engaging. And it's not just someone talking at them. It's they're engaging them in certain ways. Yeah. And can I get your feedback on that? I'm not trying to make this into a Southwest Airlines commercial, but it's kind of interesting to me that Southwest is the one who came forward in their marketing with this phrase of, transparency, right? It was about fairs and being transparent in that. So they're a company that very much leans on trust and building that. So your own thoughts about that? I mean, you observe the Southwest Airlines or any other examples that you have from your own business about how trust matters in these relationships? Yeah, you know, I think that, you know, trust and transparency is is definitely something that is really what makes your relationships work. And the reality is that we all go through challenges, whether it's a dealer or whether it's a consumer, we all go through challenges in life, whether it's with your business or whatever. But being transparent and being honest and truthful about what's really happening, I think is what helps the relationship continue to flourish and grow. even if it means, Hey, you know, you know, we part ways as a, you know, a, you know, a, you know, a business and a customer, you know, but it's, you know, being honest and trustworthy and, and transparent. I think it, you know, it's, it's, it's extremely important. So let me ask you this, you know, they, there's a lot of people out there that they talk about relationships and there it's about the, that what is taught is if, if you want change in a relationship, you need to be the, the instigator of change. And so, you know, we can talk about trust and transparency and, and I can hear in my, in my, from past conversations, dealers are like, well, they're not transparent and they're not this and they're not that. And, you know, I just would like your thoughts. It's like, is, is, Is this something that you think just happens overnight? Or is it something that, did you feel after the certification that there were ways that were made aware to you through that as like, oh, we can do better in this. Oh, we can do better in that. Oh, we can do better in the other for you to be the instigator change. Do you want to? Oh, yeah. So, you know, I think we, you know, what kind of comes to mind is that I'm thinking where does it come from? As a dealer myself, a lot of times what's automatically there or by default that's there is mitigating risk or managing my risk. When I have a customer that's not being truthful or honest or when they tear up my car, the example I'm thinking about is a recent repo. I automatically go on the defense of how do I protect myself or what do I need to do or what do I need to say? And it goes back to that fear, like fear of losing something or fear of missing something or fear of something. And it causes me to sometimes think about not really... you know, how I can serve this customer, but how do I protect myself now? You know, and it made me think, you know, what if I looked at it from a different lens of maybe the customer's afraid of something as well. They're afraid of their, you know, losing their job or they're afraid of getting in trouble or afraid of me suing them or, you know, whatever. But what if I have a conversation with them about around, hey, you know, I get it, you know, stuff happens, you know, how do we move forward? You know, and so, Um, so I think that that's part of what's there, you know, as a dealer, you know, is that fear. It's a really understanding that I don't really have to come from a place of fear and anxiety, but more of, you know, thinking about the white hat way more of how, you know, doing things, you know, the white hat way. Yeah. Um, and you know, one of the things that good morning, Karen, too, uh, that we talked about through, through the certification process is that this is. A lot of these types of ideologies are not new. There are so many dealers out there that are living the different principles already. This is just a way for us to be able to help dealers put an identity around it. It becomes a differentiator. from, um, from other dealers actually of like, you know, this is what you're going to, to, um, to get. And so white hat way is a way to be able to like, from the beginning, as, as this continues to grow is it's like a customer is already stepping in with a certain level of trust, the gate. And, and, and so that it's kind of giving dealers, uh, as, as we, as we're educating the consumers in that area about what white highway is, that it's something that they can, oh, I didn't know this, or oh, I do need a car, and I would rather work with someone that's like that. Are we still going to get people that are troublemakers? Probably. We're going to work our hardest to be able to mitigate that through layers of trust and respect and honesty and transparency and all of that but when you think about your customer ken you know we we watch the economy kind of expand and contract and and you know there's there's a lot of uh contraction and certain things that are happening right now and then we through that we have people that I mean how many of your customers are are your customers are our customers, because they hit a roadblock in life, something that really just kind of knocked them off their foundation. And now they're finding themselves in a place where they can't get regular financing. But they, you know, they, they already have a lot of the, the, the skills for, you know, I'm gonna need to pay my bill, and I need to do the thing. And, And that how attractive that something like, you know, I've been through setbacks, you've been through setbacks. And if you knew that you had to step in somewhere, like, you know, whatever it is that, you know, you've got your buyer pay here is one of many pieces in a segment of people that have poor credit that it's like, I don't want to get taken advantage of. Yeah, I want to be treated not like Well, not like I want to be treated like a human and someone that matters. And, you know, you're right, Michelle. You know, I remember when I got into the business, you know, like twenty some years ago. And, you know, the you know, the thing around being a buy here, pay here dealer is that. you know, these customers have bad credit, so they have no options. Well, that's not true anymore. They do have options, you know, and even if they didn't have any options, why would you want to treat, you know, another human being in a crappy way? Spot on. Yeah. And it doesn't matter if they've had some blemishes on their credit. Yeah, they might have made some poor choices in the past, but that's no excuse to treat someone, you know, poorly, you know, and And the thing is that car dealers already have a bad stigma for the sleazy used car salesperson. And yeah, there are dealers out there I know that are great dealers. Like what you said, Michelle, they're already doing business kind of the white hat way. But there are dealers out there that are not so good dealers. Sure. And you can kind of tell me. I'm on Facebook and some of these groups. And some of these advice or things that some of these dealers say is just horrible. Yeah. And I'm like, that's... I mean, but again, it goes back to what's right and what's wrong. What's right to you may not be right for me or what's right for me may not be right for you. Yeah. And I think it does start though at a human level. When I think about what we're doing through White Hat Way, White Hat Certification, and now this VAW track is like, when I think about it, Ken, it's like, you're right. There are dealers out there who are operating by their own set of code principles and code of honor. And I think what we have a chance to do and what we are doing with White Hat Way is giving some dealers an opportunity to have some education and some identity that they can lean on so that they can work with their team when they have a new hire that says, this is who we are. This is how we think about the world that we live in. This is how we conduct business. And it will be the same tomorrow and next year. And every customer that we approach when we bring that sort of mindset and attitude and outlook to the thing. This is the challenge that you and I will face. And I just, I'm happy to take it on, you know, head on because you and I will be taking on intangible items and we will be working to make them more tangible for dealers to be able to install them in their business. How do they apply these intangible things and how do they train their team? So this is part of what the education that you and I will create in the coming weeks and months here will help dealers to better First of all, understand what we mean by way and how it can better help them in their business. And they can decide if they subscribe to the things that we're teaching over here. But I think what people will find is at the end of the day, when you go through all of this squiggly lines and intangibles and Jim's over here talking about leading some heart led mission, you can hear that stuff. And I can say that when they get to the end of it, they'll say, you know what? I believe my business will be more successful. when I truly adopt, not just pretend to adopt, but when I truly adopt these principles and the practices that are going to tie to those principles, then, you know, the idea is people are going to be more successful. They're certainly going to be more sustainable. They're going to be around longer because, you know, you talked about this customer and how you would approach them. And we talk about a customer being sticky, right? You talk about trust deposits and And approaching a situation where, you know, you heard me in the certification course use the phrase, first time I've used the phrase lifetime handshake. It's like, you know, we've heard this idea of a customer for life. And when I think about that and I meet a customer and I have the expectation that they're going to be my customer for life, it helps me and my team, I hope, to navigate whatever the setback of the day is. Mechanical problem, job change, whatever that looks like. When we have a lifetime outlook, then our ability to navigate and to arrive at that meeting with a certain outlook and an ability to solve problems in a more permanent way is part of what White Hat Way has a chance to be foundationally for people. So whether you want to call it a philosophy or a way of life, if it helps people take what is intangible and make it more real in their business, then I believe they'll be more successful. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know what? The other thing I really like about it is, is we talk, you know, briefly about, you know, like customers, you know, being white hat certified, right? You know, because, you know, of course, yeah, you got a credit report that you can pull and you see the metrics and the numbers on, you know, whatever, you know, and when we talk about like the like from the heart, you know, a customer can't come to a dealer and say, hey, you know, trust me, you know, I'm a good person, you know, I'm going to be honest, I'm going to be transparent. I mean, there's nothing to measure that, right? And I think that a customer being a certified white hat customer, I think that has a bunch of value as well. Now a dealer can say, hey, you know what? We've got a white hat certified customer. It doesn't guarantee they're going to pay their bills on time, but it's something that they're saying that, hey, I'm making a pledge to do this. Yeah. It's a deposit for you as a dealer. It's a statement of commitment that others won't choose to make. It's like if I put my signature on this thing and I take the test, I put the effort in taking the test and I pass the test. But of course, just like you did in Utah, we'll have to put the consumer through a grueling obstacle course just like you had. I think I lost my fifteen pounds after that obstacle course, you know? You know, one of the things I was just thinking about is you know, like you said, we, we, we, because we go to conferences and we have, we have, we're members of different Facebook groups and, and, and where there's other dealers that are talking, we, we have the ability to look at dealers in a hole and go like, crud. I know why this industry has typically such a bad persona. And, and, And, you know, the thing we because we know where we're coming from, from how we're trying to be transparent, honest and all of these things. But how does a consumer know one dealer from another dealer about who it is that other than their Google reviews and their and their referrals from friends, they don't know one dealer from the next dealer about who who out there are the predators? Because there are enough predators out there in the industry that do buy here, pay here, that has created this persona. And so how do they know? I know. Because soon you'll start to see, you know, Vic Everett in California on his Facebook page, you will have a white hat certified seal on his Facebook page and on his website. And so they will begin to hit the QR code and understand what white hat way is. And they will be able to differentiate that dealer from another dealer in Vic's market. You know, and so this is where obviously our certification course this time around was part workshop, part focus group, trying to make sure we get the curriculum dialed in and what we what we really want both the course and the test to be like, and also what we want the, the ongoing education renewal to look like so that we can have a continuing education and, and verify that people are still out there following those practices. Right. And, and kind of, you know, uh, being true to the kind of the white hat community commitment. And so we're, we're excited about where it's going. We're certainly thrilled to be, to bring you on to the team and, and, uh, be part of that that coaching because it was clear to me early on that you you have operated your business that way you live that way in your life and uh so it's just part of part of um you know kind of bringing a human element and it's also in you know there's a lot of people that are just like they're really good principled oriented people out there that may not have a real clarity in how they incorporate that into their business, incorporate some of these principles that, that they live day to day, that, you know, if they're, they're church goers, they're being taught in church or, or whatever those, those principles are. And, and that we recognize that, that, you know, if the only thing, you know, because it's been the only way that you've been taught is, is a system and a process that is not infused with those principles and, then, you know, a dealer is kind of on their own about how do we incorporate this? Well, part of white hat way for the dealer as well is giving some real life examples and, and, um, like we're being way showers in how you incorporate those principles that most people live by, or there's a, and, and how we put that in our business, because Because what we're really encouraging people to do as well, and we see this in business a lot of times, there is a, let's name the person Bob. There is a Bob that goes to church and there is a Bob that conducts business and they are not the same Bob. And so this is a way for us to, it's like, let's just bring all of the the uh all of the bob elements that are his best into the business and actually help elevate um the conversation with our consumers and with other with other businesses in the area because I mean I can see this having ripples into um title loan uh places into Even like your repo companies, it's just like, let's really, we're starting. And that's the thing that really, to me, is most exciting. When you think about where White Hat Way is starting to be a kind of an identity and a way shower for businesses to, how can we show up as the ones that people can be can rely on the idea that these are the principles that we're going to be living by. And, you know, not every consumer is going to care. We know that, but we also know that there are plenty out there that it will matter too. And they just don't know who is and who isn't. Right. I would say, Ken, you know, you heard me say in the course, like I've always said, I can't, I can't make a dealer care. Right. I can, the best we can hope to do with white way is to, inspire people to be able to lean into you know when they do care that they now have a better way to tell that story and to implement pieces in their business and then the big opportunity for you and me and I'm recognizing as we talk about this that in the va track one of the things that we will have an opportunity to do is to be able to start to demonstrate that these white hat practices if you will really make a difference on the bottom line and the portfolio performance and all these things in the numbers that we we monitor in va it's it's our big opportunities to go and show that this is more than just talk about intangibles these are we're applying intangible things in a way that are very tangible in the dealership and they result in very real progress so this is this is the opportunity and even if it doesn't it's not gonna it's not gonna um diminish the bottom line it's not going to make it make you constrict but even if all it is is you know we're we're doing business the same way we did before but we are we are a we have a way to be able to express who we are and our beliefs our beliefs with our consumers and so that way showing of this is a way of doing it um that that you can and jim is you know like help people sleep better at night. But I've known plenty of people that have no scruples and sleep really well. So it's like that kind of thing. It's about feeling good and having a legacy. And so, Ken, I know you're a guy who really has focused a lot on the culture of your team. And so, you know, I know that one of the opportunities too with Atway is it really has a chance to have a profound impact on a team culture. When we can be united around this sort of core identity, it's one of the beautiful things that can come from that. So you might speak to your perception on that. You know that when you say that, it reminds me not only about me, but it reminds me of Megan Ryan when they shared about the people that they hire on their team. And they'll hire someone that's got a criminal record, giving them an opportunity, a chance when their options are limited. And I've done that in the past as well. And yeah, you know, you get burned sometimes, but really it's not really about whether I'm going to get burned or not, or if I'm going to lose or not. It's really about helping someone, making a difference in someone's life, but giving them a chance where, you know, their options may be a little bit limited and hoping and praying that, you know, maybe, you know, whatever you believe, but I believe in God, that God's going to come in their life and you know, going to, you know, change them and their circumstances when, and they can see that, hey, someone gave me a chance and gave me a job, you know, and so, you know, they may have an opportunity to better themselves. And instead of bringing that culture at your business is, you know, it's a culture of love, a culture of serving, a culture of, you know, honor and trust and just, you know, respecting human beings. And that's great. And I love, so Meg and Ryan Jones, they're out of Alabama. Why do I always want to say Mississippi? They're out of Alabama. They're also White Hat certified. And, you know, when you say that you hire someone and that you could get really harmed in the process. You can get harmed in the process from anyone off the street. And, and so, you know, there's probably horror stories about, I hired this, they didn't have a criminal record, but I hired this person and, and, you know, all of that. And, and, you know, we're, we're talking about just like someone hits something that makes them do something that creates a bad, um, a really poor credit score or really poor inability. It's like it can be the same kinds of things that you have an opportunity just in your community to help people be, I mean, offer them a hand up and, you know, to change their circumstances. And I mean, you know, gosh, darn it. Gosh, darn it. How great. how great would it feel as a business owner to know that you've graduated, um, customers into something where they now can, they now can, um, experience the benefits of having better credit of having a better whatever. And, you know, whether or not we're graduating them to another business or we're graduating to a different, a different, um, uh, type of car and financing within our own dealership but it's like you know part of this too is not about keeping someone in the same rut that they're in this is about giving them opportunities to improve giving them opportunities to have a better experience and I think that's the one you know a lot of people talk about ken that you know giving people an opportunity to prove their credit circumstance and I think that's wonderful I think we want to at least create that opportunity for people I also think that some folks that we meet will not necessarily have as an aspiration to improve their credit circumstances, in which case I want them to be doing business with a white hat dealer who cares about their experience. Because if they're going to be with me as a dealer for years, decades, I just want to make sure they're treated fairly and they have a good experience as long as they're with me, that they're not being mistreated. Right. And so I think back to the thing you talked about, it's like, you know, when you get burned by whether it's an employee or a customer or two out of three, you know, that burn you, the natural reaction is to react out of fear, as you said. And I could just stop helping everyone because two or three burned me. But then that obviously the seven or eight suffer, whereas we could just make the commitment to let's do what we can to make sure that we help those two or three, that we get better ourselves at helping those two or three. And we're still going to have some, as Michelle said, you're still going to have troublemakers and you can't, you're not going to, You're going to extend a hand and some are going to, you know, react poorly and it's not going to go well. But we know we can't, you know, fix every situation and every person. We also know that the troublemakers are nowhere near those kind of percentages. And so it's like, it's like you got a couple in a hundred that are the troublemakers. Are we going to make everyone else suffer because of the troublemaker? And, you know, it's not necessary. Sure. That's right. That's right. And if you got a whole bunch of troublemakers, then you might want to look at your marketing. Are you attracting the troublemakers? Yeah. Yeah. Or are you are you are you putting them in a position where they can only be a troublemaker because because you're not you're not willing to have a conversation or you're not willing to. And, you know, we all know human nature when you are backed into a corner and have no options. You know, a lot of people come out and they, so, and that can be, that can be construed or interpreted as a troublemaker where it's because they're backed into a corner and, and people will defend themselves. And so will dealers, by the way, too. Yeah, totally. You know, I think, Michelle, I think that from my experience, I think a lot of that, you know, can be controlled or is caused by, you know, the buy here, pay here dealer. You know, and what I mean by that is you think about it, right? You're, you're selling a car to somebody that, you know, normally can't get conventional financing because of poor choices in the past. Right. So, and if you expect that person to make their payment on time, every single time for thirty six months, That's not going to happen. Yeah, you're going to get some that will, you know, but I mean, it's unrealistic to expect they're going to pay their payment every single time. It's also unrealistic that if you sell them a car that is going to have some issues, you know, and you're not willing to help or if you intentionally sell a car that you don't want to fix hardly anything on it. I mean, the car is going to break down. And most of these buyer payer customers, you know, of course, they're not bad people, but, you know, they, you know, their funds and their cash flow is kind of limited. And so if you're not willing to help them, guess what? You're creating a scenario to where they might turn into a not so pleasant customer because they've got all these expenses that are coming up. And sometimes it happens all at once. So you've got to get that. If you're in the buyer payer space, help your customer out. Yeah, you got a good point. Those expenses you're talking about add up to stresses in their life. we don't we don't have solutions to help them work through those stresses then we can expect to have a lot of repos on the back line right and there's there's also this uh we were talking with someone I'm going to use this merry-go-round that there's a merry-go-round of being downtrodden um of of having you know and it's it sometimes can it feels I I've observed that it It's like there is a I'm a victim of this. I'm a victim of that. I'm a victim. And that there's it's like these are real life examples of, you know, I lost my job. My my wife was in a bad car accident. Now she's in the hospital. So, you know, of being victims of things. And this is a really great opportunity for us to be able to to support and educate in the process as well so that people understand that, you know, it's When you can start to disrupt the belief that I'm a victim and start to empower your consumers, you start really changing our consumer base, which is a beautiful thing that we have an opportunity to do because we work directly with the consumer base that does feel victimized by a lot of things. And so how do we help? them step out of victimhood and help them pay their bills on time and figure out how to do all of the different things. I love that, Michelle. Like what you said, it's about empowering them, but it's not about enabling. It's not about enabling the customer with bad behavior or poor choices. It's empowering them so they can make some good choices. A lot of times, I'll be honest, sometimes some of these people may have never experienced that except through the dealer. You know, like if the dealer is helping, empowering them, that might be the only time that they get to experience, hey, this is what it looks like to be able to have control of my life. You know, and XYZ dealer helped me be able to, Bob the dealer, and he's Asian, by the way, Bob, you know. Yeah, of course. We knew that. We knew that. Yeah. about the dealer helped me you know and empowered me to be you know showed me how I can you know uh you know uh get my credit back on track or you know whatever you know so yeah a couple quick things um I gotta put a mention a couple of people who commented today I'll throw them back up yeah Karen you met Karen at the certification course she's a certified uh independent agent uh many of you know her from working many years with SDA she's uh she attended in the is um and then she's also she's a white hat way ambassador that's right so she's a an ambassador we named um some time ago and then vic everett who commented which by the way ken I I'm a little bit slighted I got to tell vic I don't know why he offered good point to michelle I thought you and I made some good points today too we're full of for jim and ken but yeah so I don't know vic I appreciate it makes smooth yeah yeah he knows he runs the microphones over here So, no, it's all good. I think. Yeah. So Vic is also in East Los Angeles, is white hat certified. We love the idea of, you know, supporting him and getting his business established and white hat way can be a big part of that. But we should wrap up. We've run pretty long today. So and the the summary is that we are starting that we've talked before about having white hat ways just a very specific track for White Hat Way. And this is where we've landed on the best place for us to launch this type of conversation. And so it is going to be a V-Eight, a V-Eight plus initial conversation, but it will be content and it will be education that any dealer has access to. But it's about elevating the straight line conversations. So how do we incorporate the principles of White Hat Way in all of the operational type decisions and policies and all of those kind of things so that we really start to set a very firm foundation that our foundation is not around just the operational. Our foundation is around our why. And the why is how do we help elevate our consumers and help them be successful? Because, uh, dealers, the main, the main thing with, as a white hat way dealer, that the success of the customer is primary. Right. And, um, and so having the conversation around white hat topics are around, uh, uh, straight line, uh, pieces and white hat topics and how we can take those white hat topics. and really weave them into our operations. Right. Yep. So all good stuff. I think, uh, we, we recognize the, uh, the opportunity. Can you, and I will start to record some of this around a white hat way, uh, right away. And that'll be available in the V eight track. Um, soon. Very soon. Yeah. So look forward to that. And, and, uh, And Ken, I promise next time you come, we will have the photo of you holding your white hat certificate. I know. We didn't bring that together. Yeah, I want to do that. So thanks for the background. That's pretty darn awesome. So Ken, any party words before I... You know, yeah, you know, I'm just so excited to be a part of this and, you know, it's a, you know, it's near and dear to my heart, you know, you know, and, uh, um, you know, doing business this way. And so, you know, I really appreciate the opportunity. Yeah. Excellent. Just one extra thing before we put, we have you put you backstage or before we place you backstage, um, is that that Ken is our director of dealer services and can dealer services. One of the things under dealer services is V eight. And so as we continue to grow and scale V eight, Ken is the director of those dealer services. So we are really, really grateful to have him as a team member. And I think what that means as much as the most important part of that is anybody who's a V eight member, who's got a complaint, Send it to Ken at WhiteHatWay.com. Ken at WhiteHatWay.com. That's actually not right. That's Ken.Yang at WhiteHatWay.com. Oh, that's right. I said it wrong. I couldn't get that right. I'll handle the transparency and, you know. All right. Can you stick around for just a second? Thanks so much, Ken. Thank you, guys. All right. Great conversation. Really, really, Ken's just, I'm excited to see where we... where we go with all of the White Hat way. So again, VA is a product of White Hat Way Incorporated. And so we're just offering more options for dealers to dive more into what White Hat Way principles look like in their operations. Everybody, get them in front of the dealership. We don't know what we're going to be talking about again yet on Friday. We've got any ideas? Probably the numbers. Probably be numbers. Usually we do that. Thank you so much for tuning in or for listening to us on our syndicated podcast stations. And if we ever have charts and graphs, go to YouTube, Jim and Michelle Rhodes at Octane.group and like and subscribe. And so you can get access to when new content is dropped, especially if there are charts and graphs. All right, everybody have a great day. Thanks again so much for joining and we will see you on Friday.
